Oversized Dogs Dont Belong

Joeyman · Post by **Joeyman** » Fri May 19, 2006 4:06 pm

Your dog is put on the table and the wicket (which is set at either 13" or 15") is put to his withers.

What is his withers

Gbeagle · Post by **Gbeagle** » Fri May 19, 2006 4:06 pm

Rules is Rules if the speed limit is 55 and I get clocked doing 56 . Mr. Policeman can still give me a ticket and send me to court . As to the argument well he was only a 1/4" over supposed the 1/4" dog gets beat by a dog that is a 1/4" taller then you got a dog that winning at a 1/2" over follow the rules then you just don't have to worry about it .

Honey Pot Hounds · Post by **Honey Pot Hounds** » Fri May 19, 2006 4:24 pm

Joeyman wrote: What is his withers

A Beagles withers are the highest point of his shoulder blade. Same with a horse. Feel your dog right after his neck, along his topline. The spot on his shoulders right after his neck but before his back is his withers. THAT is were they measure to...not the top of his head

I need a diagram to really show you..maybe somebody can post one.

beerdrinking bob · Post by **beerdrinking bob** » Fri May 19, 2006 4:34 pm

IT ALL COMES DOWN TO ONE THING RULES! AND THEY STATE NOTHING OVER 15". MAYBE THEY SHOULD START AN OUTLAW CLASS WHERE SIZE DOESNT MATTER.

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Fri May 19, 2006 6:41 pm

I don't trial much, but have never seen a dog in ARHA measure over 15 inches.
Some don't look close, 1/4 to 1/2 off, but look more like they are 17 inches, but when measured, they come in under 15. Stand one that is 15 next to them and see.

I say don't measure at all and let 'um run.

Only place where a big dog would have an advantage in 4 hours or all day in open areas or in watery swamps.

Start having trials in the thickest briars, honeysuckle, kudzu possible and see how fast the dogs will get smaller as the small dogs will have the advantage by scooting through on rabbit trails while the big oversized dogs will be jumping and lunging on top of huneysuckles trying to keep up. What wins will dictate.

There is no need to make a cheater and a liar out of a good man when we don't have to.

huckleberry · Post by **huckleberry** » Fri May 19, 2006 6:56 pm

but thats not what the RULES say lets not forget that keep your fox hounds for your sunday run with your buddys, we keep getting new guys and they come in trying to obey the rules and thats hard when we keep letting these WELL OVERSIZED DOGS INTO TRIALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! these dogs become champion and grand champion dogs while on there way knocking dogs out that realy belong in trials so all you new guys dont be afraid to have these big boys measured that is unless the BUDDY SYSTEM keeps them from measuring out, way to go guys.

NorWester · Post by **NorWester** » Fri May 19, 2006 7:25 pm

I agree.......those over sized 16 inch+ monsters dont belong with trialers. When you guys get them send them up my way, I think I could find something for them to do

As for rules, Ive never had a hare throw me out of the woods yet for using an oversized beagle

WrongsideRandy · Post by **WrongsideRandy** » Fri May 19, 2006 7:28 pm

huckleberry wrote:these dogs become champion and grand champion dogs while on there way knocking dogs out that realy belong in trials so all you new guys dont be afraid to have these big boys measured that is unless the BUDDY SYSTEM keeps them from measuring out, way to go guys.

I dont mean no disrespect, but if a dog keeps getting beat by oversize culled foxhounds that are making Champs and Grands, maybe someone should look into a different dog, because someone like myself may think a dog that cant beat every dog, regardless of size, dont deserve to be in a trial, let alone a Champion or a Grand Champion. I just dont see how a smaller dog that got beat is better than a bigger dog that beat the smaller dog.

Randy

huckleberry · Post by **huckleberry** » Fri May 19, 2006 8:03 pm

pick you up one of them there rule books wrongway andy because i am not saying the smaller dog is better i am saying that if the bigger dog is oversized that means over 15 inches then according to NKC it does not belong in a field trial so when these dogs or if these dogs make champion or grand champion they should not have even been in a trial so i would not even consider these dogs to be champions

blitzen4 · Post by **blitzen4** » Fri May 19, 2006 8:16 pm

I was once told by a high ranking official that 8 people measured the same dog on the same day with the same stand and got 8 different measurements with a half inch being the largest difference. That being said I run a 14 3/8 inch male ( measured by 3 different sets of judges on 3 different dates) and as long as I'm running against another beagle size doesn't matter to much to me as I feel that there are more important factors such as hunt, nose, brains, foot ect. to be overly worried about size. I say bring your best and lets have some fun watching and listening to some good ole hounds. Dave

MasonsBeagles · Post by **MasonsBeagles** » Fri May 19, 2006 8:18 pm

well said blitzen.

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Fri May 19, 2006 8:33 pm

Hey Honey Pot,
I have looked at the diagrams before but as long as that stance with the head up is used judges will have different readings. In my humble and worthless opinion I think the only way to measure a beagle is in the stance they are meant to be in......NOSE to the ground......measure them the way they work. This way the highest point at the withers is not going change. There will only be one high point and no neck to interfere. JMO, Paul

hammerenpatch · Post by **hammerenpatch** » Fri May 19, 2006 8:39 pm

what class does the 14" hounds run in ? is it the 15"

and what about the 13.5" hounds they are to big for the 13 so do they have to run in the 15" class now thats not fair.

jlboomer · Post by **jlboomer** » Fri May 19, 2006 9:33 pm

if your to scared to run with the big dogs stay on the porch. i have a 15 inch male who was measured 3 time the first 2 time he measured 14 1/2 and the 3 15 1/4 and thats only becasue i wouldn't sell him to the guys that ran the club so they over measured me. ive had several 15 to 16" beagles come from these 13" champions. the way i look at it a beagles a beagle he can't help it if he grows a little big. this is all the exact reasons i don't trial anymore. i like a big beagle and again if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch.

WrongsideRandy · Post by **WrongsideRandy** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:06 pm

huckleberry wrote:pick you up one of them there rule books wrongway andy because i am not saying the smaller dog is better i am saying that if the bigger dog is oversized that means over 15 inches then according to NKC it does not belong in a field trial so when these dogs or if these dogs make champion or grand champion they should not have even been in a trial so i would not even consider these dogs to be champions

Hey Chuckleberry. Rule books dont run rabbits, and hounds dont read rule books and could care less about a trophy. I say get over it and start moaning about something that matters.....like all them gunshy mee-tooers that make Champion and Grand Champion in the "mighty" NKC! I hope I am not breaking news on you here.....but until you have won in AKC, your just another amateur.

I still say a dog dont deserve to be a Champion if it cant beat a dog thats an inch or 2 larger. Sell out and start again because you dont have no heat. Dont look for excuses!

Thats my story and I am sticking to it....The End.........Chuckleberry!

BTW...I agree rules should be followed and enforced, but that still dont make your little dog any better than that big dog that just beat it.

Randy

PS. Chuckleberry..you should have started this post on the ARHA site, maybe you need another inch or 2 yourself

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