dog papers

houndsound · Post by **houndsound** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:04 pm

Generaly akc reg. dogs will bring more money......... just kinda' cause' it's always been that way I think.

I've always thought it's funny with beagles the first question often is "is it akc?" cause many people think ukc papers are worthless compared to akc

But in coonhounds it's the exact opposite. If you try to sell a dog that's only akc, people would assume it's a pet or just a show dog. Without ukc papers a hunting coondog is about worthless on the market.

No real point, jsut an observation

Sugarloaf · Post by **Sugarloaf** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:22 am

I agree Catfish and Houndsound. If you don't have an old UKC bloodline with coon hounds you'd never move a dog and it's crazy that the first question that is asked when people look for a beagle is "is it akc" not can it run a rabbit. I have seen many AKC beagles over the years that needed a heavy case of lead posion to cure all there faults and many that were good. The only problem with open registries is people who reregister a dog that has been banned or already made champion under another name and get away with it. Other than that the only benifit to the AKC is the $$ you can get for young dogs. There are far more faults with the organization than good, like the legislation that catfish was speaking about. When you send them your money you support many things that we as hunters and sportsman would never give money to under any other circumstances.

TomMN · Post by **TomMN** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:11 pm

I must be the exception to the rule. If I see a dog that is UKC or ARHA/NKC registered I know that dog was bred to be a rabbit dog and it is worth more to me. If I see a dog that is AKC registered the first thing that comes to my mind is that it was bred for field trials and chances are it won't work out for me as a rabbit dog.

J.B.M. · Post by **J.B.M.** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:50 pm

Do some research and I bet you'll find out that 75% of the cosumer products and services we all spend our money on is directly or indirectly linked in some way to anti-hunting, animal rights, or some other liberal, left wing, goofball organization....The AKC is considered the top registry probably because of it's age and because AKC registered dogs are considered pure bred. IMO the pedigree is the top benefit of owning an AKC dog. The papers have nothing to do with how he performs in the field, but his ancestry has a lot to do with how he performs. The purpose of a registry should be for record keeping such as pedigree info, litter records, ownership records, transfer of ownership records, etc. Unfortunately, IMO, the AKC has evolved into somewhat of a money making racket. They expect us to keep all the records that they should be taking care of and they are expensive. I've heard that within 5 yrs all AKC dogs will have to be DNA profiled and carry a microchip which means more $$$. I still believe AKC is the premiere registry and I'll contiue to register my dogs with them, but I'm not particularly happy with some of their policies.

Run&Gun · Post by **Run&Gun** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:17 pm

TomMn,
that is sound thinking and good advice.

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:18 pm

Houndsound, real good observation and a fact at that! Been there, seen that, done that.

houndsound · Post by **houndsound** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:06 pm

Hey wardog, saw you in your driveway the other evening, would have stopped but didn't have time. Just got back from some good running, man I had fun. Only thing that would have been better is if my pup would have started and my truck hadn't of broken down again! But made a couple nice circles in about an hour in some real super thick stuff, good fun! Let me know when you want to get together and run (may have to take your truck, LOL)

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:31 pm

Houndsound, I've been out of town so much lately I doubt my dogs could even run a rabbit. Just got back home Friday the 10th and got to go again Monday for two weeks. Back home two weeks and out again back home two and you guessed it out again. This is gonna keep up until the end of May. Might know it the cool days will be gone and it'll be hotter than all get out when I get a chance to run. Hopefully I got my female bred to FC Dunn Ridge JoJo before I started this having to go out of town stuff. Now, I just hope I can be home when she's due. I'll get in touch with you sometime after the traveling's over. We may have to walk as both my trucks have the service engine soon light coming on. LOL

pete young · Post by **pete young** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:19 pm

J.B.M.
I think the DNA profiling and microchipping is the best thing they can do to insure the breed. You hear alot about people putting papers on dogs, whether it is true or false is almost impossible to figure out unless you did it yourself. I am sure it happens, but this will stop it. It atleast gives a good starting point to make sure that everyone is on the up and up. I may be a little nieve, but I think that most people are pretty honest when it comes to registering dogs. AKC has already made a few regulations on DNA profiling. Any male that is bred 3 or more times within a calander year or 7 or more times in a life time has to be DNA profiled. I am doing all 4 males that I plan on using in my breeding program. AKC will ship you the kit with no up front cost to you and when you complete the necessary steps you send $40.00 and the kit back to them. The beauty of the program actually doesn't take effect until the next generation of stud dogs come out of the generation that has already been profiled. At that point they can verify whether or not a dog came from the lineage that it's papers say it does. Yes, it is more money for AKC, but this time I think it is money well spent.

JTBeagler1 · Post by **JTBeagler1** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:41 pm

I dont think a dog cares about any papers when it is running a rabbit....

pete young · Post by **pete young** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:55 am

OF COARSE A DOG DOESN'T CARE! He has too much to worry about as it is. He leaves all of the paper work up to a bunch of people who care about being able to reproduce the best rabbit dog that they can by knowing where the dog came from and how likely he is to be able to reproduce the traits that he is showing in the field.

wolfman · Post by **wolfman** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:36 am

None of my dogs have papers. I just hunt for the sport love to hear a pack of dogs run. I guess the paper thing would be like buying a car without a title if you just want ride around in the field thats great but not worth much to re sell. My 2 cents.

BJK · Post by **BJK** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:46 am

I own NKC, AKC and CKC registered dogs. My question is, why when running with some guys, while their dogs are getting whipped and or dropping out of the chase, they go to their truck and pull out a book full of pedigrees. Showing me ''how well'' their dogs are bred. It seems as if their dog can't get it done in the field so they try to impress you with what they say is "superior pedigrees."

Personally, a sorry dog with a good pedigree ain't worth the matches it takes to burn it and the dog ain't worth the food he eats and the cost of the shell it takes to eliminate him.

Just my thoughts on the matter

BJK

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:37 pm

i dont think anyone will argue that papers dont mean a lot ability-wise but some guys sure do get all huffy if their dogs arent akc. they start saying how often paper switching happens (im sure it happens at times) and how a 10 generation pedigree dont mean nothing to them and how their grade dogs embarrass so and so's registered dogs, etc... thats all fine and dandy but dont put down people who do have akc dogs with traits/ancestors that they can track. to each his own... i dont bash grade dogs or the people who keep them... so maybe those guys should worry a little bit less about akc registered dogs and those who have them. keep what you like and quit worrying about what your neighbor has! and i have owned many grade dogs and still own one right now along with my akc dogs.

Joe P. · Post by **Joe P.** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:18 pm

Well if you guys think the AKC's DNA tests are going to cure everything let me tell you this story.
A friend of mine had a female get bred by 2 different males, one AKC and one not AKC, the pups were born and there was one pup that was definetaly out of the nonAKC dog. The way you could tell was its color, the only way the pup could be this color was to be out of the non AKC dog and the AKC dog does not have this color anywhere in it's pedigree.
So this person calls AKC to see what can be done and AKC says we will send you the DNA tests and test the pups and the parents and we will register the pups that show to be out of the AKC male. Well guess what , all pups showed to be out of the AKC male.That is not possible!!!
That tells me that either the DNA tests are not reliable or the AKC just wanted all the money for all of the pups. ????
I personnally do not care what brand of papers a dog has or if it even has any but I do want to know what is behind the dog if possible.I raise rabbit dogs and will not limit my breeding program by breeding or not breeding to a particular dog because it is not AKC registered.
The main 2 reasons most people(notice I said main and Most,not all) have to have AKC paper is because they are running AKC trials or the Almighty $$$.
I personnally do not have anything against the AKC, they have always treated me well with the few dealings I have had with them. I just get tired of hearing that a dog is not AKC it is worthless.