4s, 5s, 6s or 7 1/2s and how far

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:40 am

Ok here I go. Modern Firearms ie... shotguns using modern shot shells, that have shotcups, buffers ect.... hold pattern together much better than they use to. In other words what you use to use full for, you can now use modified, and what you used modified for, you can get by with Improved Cylinder. So many advances like back boring in shotguns allow for the pattern to stay tighter.

Ok with that said, what kills is pattern(pattern density). Not soft lead that delivers more energy than steel. Not pellet size. Pattern to kill is a dose revealed in a dose of pellets at 30 yds with out holes in the pattern that allows the target to escape wounded or escape totally. We are lucky as rabbit hunters as it takes very little to kill a rabbit. What happens with guys I hunt with mostly is they blow the heck out of a rabbit.

I hunt rabbits and birds and I have patterned every shotgun I have from my Benelli SBEII to my bolt action Mossberg 410 with ce-lect choke or the old polychoke system(for those of us who remember). What I have found patterning from 20, 30 and 40 yds is you can pretty much deliver a LETHAL DOSE TO MOST UPLAND GAME

with 6 shot or lower using Improved cylinder and cylinder bore. The exeption is the 410 with 2 1/2 inch shells.

My findings are with a 20 gauge using # 7 1/2 shot with a Improved cylinder you will have a very nice sice shot cup/pattern at 30 yds with plently left to kill at 40. With the 12 gauge using #6 with cylinder bore you will achieve the same killing pattern. Very nice, very effective. Using high brass or heavy loads can however create over kill at 20 yds or less. So if you like high brass try to aim for the nose or beak of the animal at close range. Remember the old butt, belly, beak, bang. It creates good follow through and less harm to meat and a lot of head shots. Last the 410 needs #7 1/2 to #8 at IC or modified. #7 1/2 with a modified barrel will let you reach out better at ranges past 30yds but you just do not have much shot in a 410. The #8 to 30yds is excellent with an improved cylinder.

I appologize for this lengthy disortation. I obviously have too much time on my hands, and I may be a bit of a geek. I enjoy working with my firearms, I look at them as the tools of my trade in hunting, and want them to perform at their highest level for me.

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:51 am

one thing to think about as you read everyones choices here... they are all different and all work if the shooter makes his shot. ive shot everything from a 410 to a 12 and shot sizes from 8 up to 4 and had success with all as long as i do my part. my personal preference is a remington 28 gauge 870 express with a mod choke and #5 shot... although this season i used mostly #6's cause thats what was handy. you have to be comfotable with your gun and the rabbits will start adding up regardless of gauge or shot size.

whiteriver · Post by **whiteriver** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:58 am

number 2's(2ounces) in 3 1/2 inch 12 gauge

range around 80 yards !

seems to be pretty effecient lolololooolol

just kidding lol

Mitch

Greg H · Post by **Greg H** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:54 am

The ugly step child of the hunting world, 16 gauge with # 6 low brass. I use my old faithful Ithaca side by side 20 gauge with #6. Left barral imp. cylinder, right modified. If I take a green horn or somebody that doesn't rabbit hunt much I always push that Rem. 870 16 gauge mod. onto them. It has more range than a 20 with less destruction of a 12. I really don't like picking pellets from a nice thick back-strap or hind quarters.

BunnyBuster12 · Post by **BunnyBuster12** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:16 pm

I would like to thank every one for their response. I have switched from a 12 gauge to a 20 gauge(mod) this year and am using 6s. I am going to try some 5s next to see how i like them compared to 6s. I am fairly happy with the combination I have chosen. I asked the question because some people I know that hunt rabbits say they kill them at 60yds with 6s. I know that you can get lucky every once in a while and make that shot but I wouldn't bet the farm on it and these people say they make that shot all the time. I killed a rabbit at 55 steps Friday and when I skinned him he had one pellet through the neck. I find it hard to believe that those people kill at that distance everyday. I safe out to 35yds with my 20gauge and 6s.

Danny King · Post by **Danny King** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:08 pm

The 28 gauge is just as good as any gun out there i bet it can kill rabbits up to as far as a 12 gauge there shells are expencive here though.

Danny King

Keystone Kid · Post by **Keystone Kid** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:07 pm

I use Extra Hard #5’s. I reload my own shells, so I have the luxury of using #5’s. I haven’t seen them on the market for many years. It’s very important to pattern your loads. That way you’ll know exactly what to expect out of you gun with a given load. I only use a 1-ounce load, but my loads chronograph at 1350 fps. Most loads on the market don’t chronograph at what there advertised. They are much slower.

If you have a gun that pattern’s tight enough, I have taken many rabbits at 70+ yards with my loads. I frequently use an over & under, full choke on top & improved on bottom.

Beach Creek Beagles · Post by **Beach Creek Beagles** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:23 pm

28 guage with number 6 shot. Remington 870 with modified choke, and Remington long range express high brass shells. My recipe for giving bunnies lead poison. This year I have shot them as far as 40 yards and as close as eight with good success.

timberdoodle · Post by **timberdoodle** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:48 pm

Duke, great post, but you forgot to mention shot string which is very important if the rabbit is running ..not at all important if the rabbit is sitting!!!! I too have way to much time on my hands!!

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:53 am

Timberdoodle you have an excellent point. Shot string increases with the smaller the gauge and the larger the load forced through the barrel. Sometimes you get better patterns in a twelve with 1oz of shot rather than 1 1/4 oz due to shot string an deformation of pellets.

A 410 can have a shot string 15 feet long and a very small amount of pellets are delivered at the same time and same place when a rabbit is getting up and going. On the other hand a twelve has a very short shot string with 1 oz load. Shot string is good at times, when firing a decent pattern at a bird the shot string of two or three foot shot gives us the chance for a bird to fly into the load So shot string is not bad on moving creatures always, but can be very bad using some of the smaller gauges.

Anyone can pick up a shotgun load it with anything from #9 t0 #4 and kill a rabbit. But how many of us know why? How many of us know what is the most effective and efficient load to use in their shotgun. You can get by with anything, but you can also do a little homework and put all the advantages in your favor. This also leads to more knowledge in what you are doing and quicker more humane kills.

Just some info to chew on for those of you who shoot #5 and larger out of tighter chokes. I will use a 410 as it is easier to count pellets. A 3" 410 shell of #4 has appx 101 pellets, at 30yds using a modified choke you should have 67 pellets in a 30" circle. 75pellets in a full choke. Remember these reduce in ranges farther out than 30 yds rather rapidly and increase in ranges closer that 30 yds.

A 410 with a 2 1/2" shell using #8.5 shot with an improved cylinder will have around a 140 pellets in that 30" circle at 30yds. In other words at 30 yds you have more pellets in the killing cone than #4 has in an entire 3" shell(101).

It also has a shorter shot string because the load is less. You have a much better chance to kill rabbits from 20 yds to 40 yds than you will with a #4. Period. The pattern on the #4 by nature will have too many holes in it especially after 30 yds.

My advice is use chokes with less restriction; Cylinder through Improved Cylinder with smaller pellets size unless you are shooting a 410, you can go to mod or full especially if you are hunting squirrels. You will have a better killing pattern.

Your pattern will open up quicker for close shots on moving animals and will have a better pattern with less holes at greater ranges.

The debate that larger shot travels farther is true but it also will have many holes in the pattern for the animal to escape through. The greater the distance the fewer and fewer pellets will be in the cone. How many of us are trying to shoot rabbits beyound 40 yds over hounds anyway. If reaching out is what you want to do, get a 17HMR.

Further info on pellet count in a 410
2 1/2" #7 1/2 177 pellets
2 1/2" #8 1/2 238 pellets
3" #7 1/2 231 pellets
3" #6 160 pellets
3" #4 101 pellets

This is just information do what you will with it. If you are happy with what you are doing, keep doing it. If you like to experiment, patterning your scatter guns can be fun and surprising in what you find out. And no matter what it will make you a better hunter and shooter.

Just remember the numbers do not lie. We can argue what bark is best, but when it comes to mathmatics there is only fact.