no more oversized dogs

[jimb1069]

So in a hour cast your dog falls behind? No way this has anything thing to do with conditioning? If she is running that hard just to keep up with the dog in front do you not give any credit to the dogs nose that is running it so fast that your hound is just chasing the dog in front of her? Or do you use this size issue as an excuse when you get beat? If your not getting beat how great it must be to beat these oversize hounds with so much advantage. One last note, If you won over a pack of 12in dogs would you hand over your blue ribbon to the next guy in line because surely you had an unfair advantage. Or maybe you just had the better dog that day!

[toldyouso]

Listen Jim is right we are worrying about the wrong stuff. Size Size Size big deal we do not judge on speed anyhow a little dog can jump a rabbit does size have anything to do with it NO!!!!! A little dog can strike a rabbit does size have anything to do with it NO!!!!!!!! And a check is when that fast dog screws up the chase and that little dog finds it and scores. RIGHT!!!!!!! Now if that little dog can not run for an hour and be within 15 seconds of that big dog that little dog is not worth a crap anyhow. Jim is right no one mesured any dogs the only time things get changed is when certain people do not win . Then and only then we seem to have a problem. Bring back everett morgan we did not have these issues when a houndsman was running this train wreck.

[bwe007]

jimb1069, first of all ask anybody that knows me and they all will tell you i'm no whiner or sore loser. when i get beat i get beat. i beleave the taller the dog is the faster it can physically run. that's my point. have i ever had a hound measured no. its just my opinion that taller dogs have a speed advantage. the breed standard says 15" period. not 15 1/2", not 16" but 15". trust me my smaller females never suck hind tit and alot of the times lead the pack around. but there's no doubt if they were a full 15" they would be faster. by the way my dogs are in tip top shape and you would be hard pressed to find any in better condition. and yes when she leads 15" dogs around and wins i love it. but i don't make excuses ask anyone!

[jimb1069]

bwe007,

I apologize if you took my comments personally, even though I was speaking directly to you It was intended to be a scenario. Again I apologize. As toldyouso just mentioned and I totally agree, it is not the size of the legs or overall size of the hound that gives a certain advantage. It is the hunt, jumping ability,nose, heart and mostly the size of brain that gives the advantage to the winning dog. Atleast these are the traits I think puts or should put most dogs in the winners pack. And big ole floppy ears that pull the scent in..lol

[SUNRISE10]

If it makes no difference why run over 15'' dogs..Please explain is all your good dogs oversize..

[Bunnyblaster]

As a general rule longer legs mean a dog that is capable of running faster. Does it mean that all 15" dogs are faster than all 13" dogs? No and you'd have to be blind to not understand there are many other factors that go into the type of dog each turns out to be........brains, jumping ability, nose, etc.......all the things that were already mentioned.

But you'd also have to be blind to not see that a shorter stride requires more effort to cover the same amount of ground as a longer stride. Does this affect most dogs in a 1 hour trial? I have no idea because I don't trial. But I do know that I've seen shorter/fast dogs get tired out well before a bigger/faster dog when you take them out for some BIG spring running. It's just the way it is because it takes them more effort to cover the same amount of ground. Can you lift as much as a guy twice your size? Have ever walked next to someone taller or shorter than you? Does it always mean they're gonna be "better" just because they're bigger? No. Does it give them an advantage? Yes.

I think it's a good idea for everyone with big hounds to go start they're own club/registry/whatever. Because then in a few years I'll get to see them on here complaining about some guy that brought a 17" or a 18" hound to the trial!!

[Bunnyblaster]

If it makes no difference why run over 15'' dogs..Please explain is all your good dogs oversize..

That's actually a very good point..........sorta look at it in reverse. I'm looking forward to the answers on this one.

[jimb1069]

Oh yes very good point! Let me see when you run to the beagle store and buy that special new puppy do you get to put in special requirements. Let see I'll take one with a huge nose, but with the brains to know when to keep his mouth shut, and give me all the extra foot you can throw on one, but again the brains to know when to slow down, and give me the perfect ears, and a touch more brains if you got any extra but DON'T make him an 1/16th over 15 inches cuz someone will cry unfair unfair!! I just run what I have guys and it aint much compared to what alot of you guys have. I was huntin way before I got into this crazy game so I'm just bringin to the table what I already had. Like I said ive been beat alot but not once because joe blow brought a BIG dog to the hunt. If i was winning I wouldn't be on here cryin. Its them darn little dogs I want banned...lol Until monday fellers....gotta biggen I gotta work with before tomorrow morning!!

[kjohn2hunt]

This does it for me!!!! Im going to start judging with a pencil that is sharpened on both ends!!!!!!!!!!!
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Im going to cheat everybody I know cause they are my buddies Their dogs will have to go 100 yards to get a check. Then Im going to score the guys I dont know a couple extra checks. That should make things about right .

Thats how I judge Mike anyway, need any pointers. lol

[Bunnyblaster]

Hey smart guy then why don't you tell me what the cutoff should be?? Or should it just never matter??

And again I'm talking about trialing not just going out hunting. I don't care what you bring on a hunt because as far as I know the DNR doesn't have any rules that limit dog size. But if you're gonna go play a game that has RULES and limits then maybe guys should consider that before they bring one that might measure out?? Hmmmmmm, but that probably makes too much sense to actually follow the rules.

[golden acres]

Watched a dog being measured at the World a few years back. measured a few times and different measurements everytime. Seemed kind of puzzling

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

ya, it seems to me people have 15in or bigger dogs because they believe it gives them an advantage for whatever reason or people wouldn't be pushing the issue...

A good way to beat a big ole dog I hear is take them with a smaller dog cast in the thickest nastiest overgrown brush you could ever find then the real big dogs wont be able to keep up.. Never seen it done but they were talking about it at the trial last week..

[JCM]

Watched a dog being measured at the World a few years back. measured a few times and different measurements everytime. Seemed kind of puzzling

A guy was looking at a dog to buy this year at the World. He asked four people on the ARHA Board to measure it and none of them knew about the other measurements. Two measured it in and said the dog was fine. Two measured it out and said do not buy it because it is too big.

If Board members do not measure a dog the same on the same day with the same stand, how can this keep from being one big cluster?

[Bunnyblaster]

I don't believe there will ever be a perfect measuring system because I just don't see how it is possible from all I've heard others talk about it and the little I've actually seen for myself. We're not dealing with a piece of wood or metal here it's a dog that will stand a little different each time it's under the bar. And then if you throw in a little human error and how people all tend to do things just a tad different from the next guy it'll just never be exact..........it can't. Now can it become reasonably consistent? I would think so if you could take out human bias towards one side or the other. Just like was said it seems some try to measure dogs out and some try to measure them in. That right there adds a level of inconsistency that you have to take into account.

And while I do believe guys like and will breed for bigger dogs I also firmly believe that most guys just have a good dog that they want to trial that is right at the line. I don't blame them for bringing the dog but you have to know going into it that if you're gonna bring a dog like that you'd better be ready to be scratched from the trial. And while measuring in a dog like that for the guy that made the trip may seem like the "nice" thing to do it's not necessarily the right thing to do. I would feel terrible for sending the guy away too but he knew there was that chance before he came.

[lee broadley]

do other formats measure? how do they do it? looks like a laser pointer could be put at 15" if he blocks laser from opposite wall hes out. nothing touches the dog, would be hard to teach it to cheat. if a fish has to be 12" to keep 11 15/16" will earn you a fine. look at pups parents, gives good indication of size, if it grows too big sell to a gun hunter or just keep for your self to hunt with. if 15" dogs are no advantage buy dogs that should go 14". rules rules rules