inbreeding ???

[mybeagles]

Jay, Sparky was the hardest hunting dog Ive seen yet.....he had as much nose as Ivy, was a touch faster, and actually outchecked her on most days. He was out of her first litter, (extreme outcross). If your pups can out perform Sparky, I will certainly be impressed(I hope they can).....Boggity is close bred, but about as much of an outcross to Ivy as you will find....I wont be doing any close linebreeding or inbreeding but if others want go through multiple litters of pups to come up with a top producer, Ill be glad to outcross to them Have to go with what your comfortable with I guess.....culling pups in tough for me so I try to go with highest percentage cross I can make.

[NorWester]

Mybeagles wrote,"I wont be doing any close linebreeding or inbreeding but if others want go through multiple litters of pups to come up with a top producer, Ill be glad to outcross to them".........................................................NOW you're thinkin!! I dont know about culling pups however,.....its not that easy as to pick the winners and the duds when they are babies, you usually gotta put a year or two of work into them before you figure out you wasted your time and gotta head back to the drawing board with your tail between your legs

[smithbros.1]

Dave, Sparky was just as you say & I loved him! So why did you get rid of him???
My male is not a good as Sparky was YET! But he is close on the line with a nack for the tough checks. He has a above average nose & a tad slower. Next gun season will tell the rest of the story....I think the Ivy & Boogity cross was the most consistant she has thrown & I have saw 3 of 4 litters. Boogity was not bred that close either! He has Jack top & bottom once 3 generations back. (line breeding)
Tight inbreeding is a little risky for me, But I wont rule out line breeding, people have used it for many years with success
Take care J

[MasonsBeagles]

A good example of linebreeding that is successful. The dog Jim Abshire just won the Indiana State with. Also won the Little World has a win and some places in AKC, with very limited trialing. he is out of a female that is a father daughter cross the sire is double Sock it To Me on TOp(Half Mate Breeding). Sires Dam is also the Dams Grandmom. Id put that hound up against any hound and he will make a good showing. Another hound that is strong line bred and puts up good numbers is Osbournes Spade. Like I said in the past it dont work on all lines or all hounds. When it does you have the potential to have something special. But mainly everyone just has to do what works for them. The different ideas is what makes it interesting.

[SMITTY1233]

Spary was a great dog when he was a pup.... Ran with him several times on hare and cottontail and really liked him but what happened to him at age 2 and 3 was pretty amazing...... And I know that doesn't mean I won't see the same out of the Boogity and Ivy cross at age three.... But right now I would say those dogs are going to be just as solid as rabbit dogs as Sparky was and probably be able to run past age 3..... This has nothing to do with Boogity producing or being a dog I really liked it has to do with this post and that the best rabbit dog I have ever hunted with only produced one time and that was bred back into a line bred male! I have seen enough out of Ivy to know if she was mine and I was going to breed her again, it would be back into a line bred Jack dog. I don't think she will produce outcross because she is pretty loosely bred herself.... Just IMHO only....

[ricky murphy]

Steve

I have stayed out of this debate too.

As an old timer, who as a teenager with a kennel of beagles in the early 50's waiting by the mail box for those copies of Hounds and Hunting every month and devouring all that was in them I can say I have seen many folks inbreed and followed the trend some myself back then.
We and many others kept two sets of beagles. Those we hunted (bred Best to best) and those we inbred to trial. The movement among all trialers (there was only one recognized trial and that was AKC Brace). There were unofficial trials held, but they were actually gundog beagle matches for speed and drive and were for money wagering.

The goal we all had was to breed for ever more slower, right on the track brace beagles with each litter to be able to WIN.
Over many years, the goal has been met as their beagles do exactly as was wanted. But, in obtaining their goals, bad traits came with it that has to be lived with. Many physical and mental defects, breeding and whelping problems. Just ask one to see. Go look at their dogs. Go to a trial.
These folks were smart and understood inbreeding and did the proper things like cull hard, etc.

My point is simply this. It was easier to inbreed successfully in the 50's since the goal was to go backward (Digress the breed). When those 50's breeders write and talk about improving the breed or breeding a better trial beagle that could win, their meaning was not as it is today. In other words, to breed to go slower, to have crooked stunted legs that move a dog slower, heavy bodies, etc was much easier than inbreeding to get faster, straighter, and what is now called improving.

Try what you want, they are your dogs. Running them is not all the enjoyment.

It would be interesting to talk to you about your breeding program in about 20 years and get your opinion then.

ive expierenced whelping problems with a couple of SPO bitches seems like thier always a dead puppy in the sack these two bitches came from trial dogs run in the same circut from the ped it looks like these people in this SPO circut mainly breed to each others dogs i know some of these people an the dogs they like all are very similar in looks an running style

[ricky murphy]

Steve

I have stayed out of this debate too.

As an old timer, who as a teenager with a kennel of beagles in the early 50's waiting by the mail box for those copies of Hounds and Hunting every month and devouring all that was in them I can say I have seen many folks inbreed and followed the trend some myself back then.
We and many others kept two sets of beagles. Those we hunted (bred Best to best) and those we inbred to trial. The movement among all trialers (there was only one recognized trial and that was AKC Brace). There were unofficial trials held, but they were actually gundog beagle matches for speed and drive and were for money wagering.

The goal we all had was to breed for ever more slower, right on the track brace beagles with each litter to be able to WIN.
Over many years, the goal has been met as their beagles do exactly as was wanted. But, in obtaining their goals, bad traits came with it that has to be lived with. Many physical and mental defects, breeding and whelping problems. Just ask one to see. Go look at their dogs. Go to a trial.
These folks were smart and understood inbreeding and did the proper things like cull hard, etc.

My point is simply this. It was easier to inbreed successfully in the 50's since the goal was to go backward (Digress the breed). When those 50's breeders write and talk about improving the breed or breeding a better trial beagle that could win, their meaning was not as it is today. In other words, to breed to go slower, to have crooked stunted legs that move a dog slower, heavy bodies, etc was much easier than inbreeding to get faster, straighter, and what is now called improving.

Try what you want, they are your dogs. Running them is not all the enjoyment.

It would be interesting to talk to you about your breeding program in about 20 years and get your opinion then.

i have whelping problems with 2 of my SPO BITCHES

[NorWester1]

btt... just for the trip down "memory lane"

[mn_beagleboy]

I'm not here to start an argument. I'm just here to give the answer to the questions ask. Wheater inbreeding, linebreeding, or outcross, the key for successful breeding is a double click on your mousepad on the link below.
http://www.northernmihare.com/Trial_Results.html

After studying all the placing dogs pedigree and you still don't have a clue to breeding, please don't breed at all. You will produce junk and there are enough junk out there already. I like to see results of the inbreeding stuff. If I'm right, there is not a dog that is inbreeding in the picture. If I'm right, all you need is an akc paper to enter your dogs in those event. I want to see an inbreeding beagle dominating in any format (brace, large pack, little pack, small pack, progressive pack, you name it). Where is that inbreeding beagle? I love to see one that is very good from many judges view and not the breeder itself point of view so I could go stud to his sire. If anyone ever sees one or bump into one inbreeding dog that is dominating in large pack or mid-west format, please let me know.

Beagleboy

[tiny timber]

Ok all I find is the mother and father of the dogs. Where is the rest of the peds? If we can only see the dog's mother and father we can't assume they are not inbred. Can we? I'm not against outcrosses but if you want consistency you breed close. Just makes odds better. If you inbreed from the experience that I have witnessed you get idiots or greats but they are consistent. As long as you are willing to be honest then there is nothing wrong with it. Best hound we ever owned was a half brother sister cross. And all the hounds were really good.

[Katelyn]

Inbreedin is juss like every other Cross ,
They either work or they dont !!!

I bred this mainly to get The dam of Sonic & CryBaby back ,fastest female I've seen yet & would be in front under any curcomestance.
She was a 13" female that could destory 15 to 17" males or females ,it didnt matter !!!

http://hounddogcentral.com/view_pedigre ... &title=KKS BLUEWAY ROUGH-N- ROWDY&generations=4

These pups are bout 7 1/2 months old & Nothin can buy any of them ,THey could jump & run there own rabbit at 4 months old
*Juss Sayin nothin wrong with itt (my opinion)