Disappointed with quality of dogs

[bucks better beagles]

Tony 83: Tell me son, since you have hunted all of your very short life, how many rabbit dogs or for that matter, dogs do you have now? Where did you get your last rabbit dog? Looks to me as though the bottom dwellers are crawling out of the mud.

If you go back and reread my post on the issue of "beating" a dog, you will see that I said we have to define the word. My suggestion was only that, a suggestion. If you want hard rules, go to a trial. That is why they have them. In a friendly run, you can "beat" a man's dog but you cannot beat his mouth. There are endless excuses. Hay, that reminds me of a song I once wrote!

Cherokee (Tsa La Gi), let's not bring religion into this discussion.

[Dave Swiger]

Jimbo wrote?
"Just remember us country folk breed em tight so iffin ya like what ya see dont be surprized to see the same family of hounds on both sides of the paper."

Some folks dont understand this concept. Being from West virgina, we say the only good thing about divorce is she will still be your sister.

Dave

[Norshore]

Now thats funny

[hurryup]

A good dog to me is one that hunts and runs the same, no matter of the conditions or the other hounds. It looks good with crap dogs and great with good dogs, it doesn't matter if it is running solo or in a pack when turned loose its all business and starts searching for a rabbit, and will drive that rabbit to the best of its ability. If the other dogs run off game ,stand and pee or run down a road.. A good dog will perform consistantly giving a 100 %..Got 1 thing on its mind, produce a rabbit..Thats what I call a rabbit dog.

[JCM]

A good dog to me is one that hunts and runs the same, no matter of the conditions or the other hounds. It looks good with crap dogs and great with good dogs, it doesn't matter if it is running solo or in a pack when turned loose its all business and starts searching for a rabbit, and will drive that rabbit to the best of its ability. If the other dogs run off game ,stand and pee or run down a road.. A good dog will perform consistantly giving a 100 %..Got 1 thing on its mind, produce a rabbit..Thats what I call a rabbit dog.

This is an interesting point. It is surprising how many dogs can look good in a good pack but can't carry a poor one, or still stick out as the best in a good pack. But the great dogs can do both.

[Tonyallen83]

I agree hurry up you are right on point a rabbit dog should be so confident and independent that the pack will not affect his ability. I would say this confidence and independence comes from age and hours and hours of solo time. This elaborates on my point how will a young dog learn this if he or she is cast with 12 or 14 other dogs from the time they are started.

[augerhead]

Toney allen, Here we go, I here this word alot POTENTIAL, any good dog that I have ever had showed it,,had what I wanted by the time it was a year old. I am not saying a dog doesn't improve with age and running hours, but this hillbilly ain't keeping one for two years waiting to see if its POTENTIAL or as you say his confidense ever pans out.The kind of dog I want will not require a two year training course. If they have it will show dosen't matter if your training program includes running with a pack, solo them till they are three if you want but its not a must for one if they have it. Case and point Andy Labo

[bucks better beagles]

Illogical Tony: If you solo a dog as you say and make him independent, what will he do when he gets turned loose with that big pack in a trial or on the hill? He won't know poopy and really look bad. If you only have one dog and solo him, great but if you are going to run him in a pack, he has to know how to deal with the pack mentality. Admittedly, some dogs that are packed all their lives, do not make it but that is the price of doing business. They probably wouldn't have made it anyway. This is the classic time paradox in action. It is not something you can test because you can never go back and start over.

Augerhead, right on. I classified your philosophy as the "it factor" before Tony 83 was born. You can see the 'it factor" in a young dog even though you may not be able to describe it. If a dog doesn't have this factor, it never will.

[augerhead]

Tony, A man I knew, Chub, had some pretty good dogs all his life, some people told me he was just lucky when it came to pickin a young dog to fool with. I say poo to that he could see it, didn't have any training program, any solo time, he simply turned loose with anything as many as you want. Cream will come to the top, they got IT or they ain't.

[See low]

Tony83............... If can remember correctly you said that youve only owned two RABBIT DOGS .. Now where did one of those dogs come from... It came from the kennel of BUCKS BETTER BEAGLES...A dog that wich our good friend buck thought was just an average dog... now what does that tell us.. It tells me that a man see's things differant.. we know what Buck sold him for and we also know what you bought him for... my question to you is. How can you call Buck a bottom feeder when the best you ever owned ' in your eyes ' was just another trade dog to Buck... what im trying to say everybody likes a differant dog... but thats what makes trading.. As for your training methods our Dad always said in the words of Augerhead the cream will come to the top... its hard to believe that 2 people can be mentored by the same man and see things so differant..

[bucks better beagles]

See Low is so correct but I see a civil war coming. This thread is soon to be locked.

[littlewoody]

Woody: Bluesly keeps some good dogs. Hope all works well. Come over and run with me sometime. I am in Stockbridge.

After Deer season over email me.

[Tonyallen83]

First of all I never referred to BBB as a bottom feeder those were his words. See Low bless your heart son that's all I'll say about you. Augerhead you made my point exactly Chub let his dogs run run run this is where they all acquired their skills. Now as for Mr. BBB I ended up with his average hound and he sent his good ones to KY with See Low OH My Lord. I won't insult anyone's dog intelligence but you will never convince me of this false doctrine the it factor is how you handle and run your hounds now some won't make those are culls and some are extra special but most beagles become decent hounds if you run them properly when they are young.

[mybeagles]

I won't insult anyone's dog intelligence but you will never convince me of this false doctrine the it factor is how you handle and run your hounds now some won't make those are culls and some are extra special but most beagles become decent hounds if you run them properly when they are young.

(your challenging my intelligence with this post because you didn't proof read it, please edit so we can follow your thought if there is one)

Your "backtracking" on your own opinion all in the same sentence.

You stated its ALL about how you handle the hounds, then you say BUT some are culls and some are extra special..................

What if you dont handle the extra special hound correctly? Will it still be extra special?

What if you handle a cull properly? Will it still be a cull?

Can you make an average hound extra special? Can you make an average hound a cull?


IMO as long as you get the dog in the woods enough, they will make or break themselves. Some call it cream rising to the top. You don't train beagles to run a rabbit, its instinct. The instinct is there or its not. If the instinct is not there its a cull, if the instinct is there they make a good dog. Maybe the "IF FACTOR".... Correct me if Im wrong augerhead, but I think you have been seeing too many dogs that lack the instinct to hunt. How you handle a dog might help fine tune them, but its all going to come out when you drop them in the woods. I would rather dump a beagle in a pack of 15 dogs everynight and pick them up in the morning than I would leave them in a kennel. They will learn some good and maybe some bad in a Large pack, but left in the kennel they learn nothing.

Tony, I only keep 2 running hounds and like to solo/brace them but that's just a personal preference, lacking the time to keep 10. I will also dump my 2 in a pack of 15 or more and let them run all night while I sit and roast hot dogs. If that ruins them, I didn't have much to start with.

Mybeagles

[See low]

Tony83. Go over to the stocksale or your mentor's kennel " I think he's got about 15 " And get you a couple and have some pups. Just train them the way you want them to be. Or just leave them loose " solo " would that work. And you want to bless my heart. Just bless my kennel with more like the last one I got that didn't suit you.. To conclude...... Even though you talk a little off. I've got your back " that's what brothers do " if these guys get to rough on ya well run them dog on dog for crossings for the bust , how ever they want to do it.