COLDTRAILIN

B.Trull · Post by **B.Trull** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:08 am

None of my hounds have ever run one stiff. I did have an ole dog that had caught 2 for me but she did it by sneakin up on them and she would catch them still squirmin and the bring them back to me. darn I miss that dog though she did cheat on the line and was tight mouth. she died at the age of 6 of kidney failure. My pack hasnt been the same without her. I have been tryin to replace her for 2 seasons now. That dog had rabbit sense and just seemed to know where the rabbit was at all times no matter if it was sittin or running. Peace

Brad

New York Hillbilly · Post by **New York Hillbilly** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:18 am

Hey guys,
I have left this topic alone because I have been down this road in the past. However, here is a little question for y'all. When one of my hounds up here in snow country opens on an old track and then slowly works it to the hare and as they get closer the other hounds open one by one until it is jumped (as they start to smell the hare) this is a fault? To me it is just a hound with a big nose telling the other pack mates "hey it's over here lets go". A hound that potters and babbles will quickly lose credibility with the pack mates and they will stop harking in when it opens. But a hound that opens early and almost always produces the hare for the pack to chase quickly becomes a most valued member to the pack. Now look at a different scenario. A hound can smell the rabbit or hare but does not open, presumably because he is some how smart enough to know that it is not proper pack ettiquette. This hound works the track until he "knows" the hare is up and running not because the track is now hot enough to excite him to the level of opening. If this were to happen in a trial and a hound was silently tracking the rabbit/hare out of the check area and leaving the pack behind still searching they would consider it sneeking off stealing the track. Why is it that if a hound can smell a hare/rabbit and it trails it silently before the start of a race it is good form and yet if it does the exact same thing once the race has been going on and the run breaks down it is stealing the track/line? I still stand my ground that a hound has it's own level of smell that must be reached before it triggers the "open" response. The hound that smells rabbit/hare and starts running around like a nut case barking all over the place IS Faulty and is not cold trailing it is just barking because it smells the right thing but is clueless what to do next. The hound that can smell a rabbit/hare and open then slowly work the track to the hare where it is then jumped is a real treasure to me. Does this hound have more nose than the other hounds that are in the pack and not opened, or does it just have a lower level of smell required to trigger the hound to open? Only the hound knows for certain! I do know one thing though and that is when the same hound continues to be the "strike dog" for the pack and is able to work out and then run the rabbit/hare with the pack that the others would have never begun to trail, it does have a bigger nose or maybe a few more brain cells in there. It certainly is not a fault! For the record I own at least one of each type I describe including sadly enough a babbling idiot. And I can say that there is a huge difference between my big nose bitch and my babbler. The first always produces and the latter seldom does.

Just thought I would chime in. Notice on this post it took a long time for me to reach my level to open.

NYH

kjohns · Post by **kjohns** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:35 am

I guess we're just going to have to disagree here. A hound that opens on a cold trail and consistently jumps a rabbit, is not faulty. It is worth its weight in gold.

New York Hillbilly · Post by **New York Hillbilly** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:40 am

kjohns,
As you can see I am with you on this and am glad to share in the wealth.
NYH

beaglebill · Post by **beaglebill** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:57 am

Good post Hillbilly. However i really dont think hes tellin his buddies hey its over here. I think youll find they holller if no one is around. The reason who in the h&&* can figure some things out. We just guess.

cooper · Post by **cooper** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:36 pm

Never seen a coldtrailer produce consistently day in and day out. I think the owners of these's dogs overlook it when there dogs are babbling and not producing but when they finally do get the jump they forget about the last hour of babbling their dogs had just done. [/quote]

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:52 pm

i disagree cooper. the last 2 days here have been rough going. if it hadnt been for coldtrailing, we wouldnt have got much running. each day, the first 2 rabbits were coldtrailed for 75 yards (or so) and then jumped. last week we didnt have any cold trail runs to start with. all depends on the conditions. like i said before, i like a dog that CAN coldtrail when he HAS to but will pick a hot scent over a cold one when its there of course. babblers are worthless, but a dog that can coldtrail on the rough days and produce is worth his weight in gold to me.

kjohns · Post by **kjohns** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:09 pm

Like I said Cooper, then you've never seen a good cold trailer. Just babbling idiots.

bob huffman · Post by **bob huffman** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:12 pm

Why does a hound bark on a track? They were bred to do it. Why were they bred to bark instead of running silent? So the hunter could know what they were doing. In my experience, sometimes it is a good thing to know a dog is tracking a cold but runable track. If I walk one direction for 5 minutes and the hound is tracking a cold but runable track in the opposite direction and then suddenly jumps the rabbit out of his bed, I have a long way to walk to get back to where the rabbit was jumped because for one reason or another I didn't know the dog was tracking in the opposite direction. On the other hand, if the dog would have opened with a cold bark about every 100 feet or so, I could know what he was doing and act accordingly. This is a good thing where rabbits are scarce and a dog has to go deep to find one. It increases my chances of shooting the rabbit. I have had both types of dogs and I like the one that can drift the bad track to where the scent becomes stronger and more runable and I like for them to tell me what they are doing so I can be part of the hunt. This is in no way related to a hound that just barks around and makes no progress. I have had them too, but not for long. I allow a pup to do this as they learn to work a bad track, but by the time they are 2 they should be moving those bad tracks out to produce a rabbit quickly if possibe.

cooper · Post by **cooper** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:18 pm

Blackdirt from my experience I have never seen a coldtrailer only coldtrail only when it had to. If there is an old scent they will coldtrail or at least the ones I have seen. Kjohns I guess I haven't seen a good coldtrailer and I don't really want to.

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:41 pm

cooper- i have seen it and have a couple that do it well in my backyard right now. like i said--worth their weight in gold.

JCM · Post by **JCM** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:03 pm

Part of the difference in preference might be the difference between hunting hare and hunting cottontails. If a dog trails through the woods on a hare, not only does the hare leave stronger scent, but it will take off through the woods when hounds get close.

A cottontail, on the other hand, will often let dogs trail all around it, and never take off unless a hound actually jumps it out of a set.

However, the best chases on both hare and cottontails come when hounds jump a rabbit. Surely no one (even on a Q & A Board) could say tracked up rabbit races are better than when the pack jumps a rabbit and all take off in full cry.

If we know rabbits jumped are the best races, why wouldn't we want jump dogs instead of trackers? Most likely, it is owners settling for less, or making excuses for inferior hounds. I cannot believe a true houndsman would prefer a track-em-up dog to a jump dog.

Number 1 way to ruin a hunt--deer chase.
Number 2 way to ruin a hunt--dogs bark and bark with no rabbit.

New York Hillbilly · Post by **New York Hillbilly** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:36 pm

My cold trailing bitch Candy does produce consistently even at her old age. She is one smart girl and if she has the pack in tow with her when she is tracking a hare on an old track it almost always leads her and the rest of the pack right to the hare which is then "jumped". She needs no help from any other hound to jump her own hare. If they have been holding tight she is the one that usually comes up with the hare to start with. NO EXCUSES! She is by no means a babbler as a matter of fact she has wins and or places in both AKC Large Pack on hare and in ARHA PP and for anyone that knows how these operate they would know if she were a babbler she would never be left on the ground by the judges. When she is around there is no need to wait for a hot nosed speed demon to run wildly through the woods till they run into a hare and bust it lose to run.
NYH

bob huffman · Post by **bob huffman** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:43 pm

A hound that barks and barks with no rabbit is not a true cold trailing hound with brains and ability. He is a dud. Why do people that want only dogs that open once tha reabbit is running, continually say that cold trailers bark with no rabbit. My guess is they have never seen a dog with the ability to drift a track and jump the rabbit. They must think that this type dog doesn't have jump ability as well as tracking ability. They must think that people that like a true cold trailer, hate jump dogs or something. The cold trailers I have owned have been excellent jump dogs also or they wouldn't be here. Somewhere there could be someone arguing about whether it is better to have a coon dog or a squirrel dog. Why not have both in the same dog. I always trained my coon dogs on squirrels when thay were young and never had one tree a squirrel at night coon hunting. They would just naturally switch over to coon at night but would still tree squirrel in the day. it was in the genetics. Yes squirrels will get out on a moonlight night. Same with the Beagles. Why not have a good jump dog that can also quickly drift a cold track. It seems to increase the chances for rabbit contacts. If I had to depend on a dog that could only jump a rabbit to find a track, I would quit hunting.

swing · Post by **swing** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:00 pm

This is going to make some mad but I am going to say it anyways, I have judged several hounds at trials and 90% of the dogs that cold trail rabbits up give extra mouth in the check area.
So whats up with that.
I say it's giving mouth when it ought to keep it's mouth shut and look for the line.
I will say this,the hounds in L.P. as far as extra mouth are worst now than they were 3 years ago.
One thing I cant stand is extra mouth, No need for it.
90% of the winners that are being brought back are mouthing idiots and judges are following them and thinking just because they are barking they are running a rabbit.
I judged one cast when the dogs were spread out over 50 yards wide and everyone of the dogs were barking, I told my helper I hope we didnt ever catch up to this rabbit because it might be a scary scene.
O well run what you like,if you can stand the extra mouth more power to you.
Trent

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