extra barking on a rabbit track..

[smokedawg]

My hound with the big nose that opens early on a track is also my fastest hound and best all around rabbit dog. More times than not when you see them running he will be on the front. He is not much faster than my other hounds but when he is on the front, it seems they have less down time. Most folks think a big nose dog that will open on a colder track is slow and deliberate but this is not always the case. My idea of cold trailing is when you see a dog hang up on an old track and go back and forth and never go anywhere with it or jump the rabbit. Opening early and jumping the rabbit aint my idea of cold trailing.

[bucks better beagles]

I can't remember who posts what on here anymore so I will just say in reference to the cold nose thing, my best hound, coldest nose, fastest, best barker etc. is all the same dog. I am also in Michigan. My dogs must run and compete at all times. There is nothing wrong with a field trial dog and I never can figure out why more trialers don't speak up when their sport is be maligned. A trial dog is not necessarily a hot nose dog or a race breaker just as rabbit killer dogs are not all great snow dogs and circlers. Most trialers I know run their dogs all the time under all conditions and expect them to perform. They just like to trial also.

[mybeagles]

There is nothing wrong with a field trial dog and I never can figure out why more trialers don't speak up when their sport is be maligned. A trial dog is not necessarily a hot nose dog or a race breaker just as rabbit killer dogs are not all great snow dogs and circlers. Most trialers I know run their dogs all the time under all conditions and expect them to perform. They just like to trial also.

Buck,

I trial some and judge when I can. My point is not to malign field trials but make light of the different styles of hounds. If you start attending some of the trials you will see what I'm talking about. It's a common dialogue with field trials yet the fast rough hounds do the best any ANY extra bark is viewed as the worst fault a dog can have.. When the extremely fast and rough dogs do not place at the trials you will hear a bunch of crying and guys threatening to leave the sport because they feel cheated.

You are correct not all trial dogs are bad and not all hunting dogs are good. Most of both are average or below. I have not had the pleasure to watch any extremely fast dogs that were adequate on a real cold hunting day. I have seen some dogs that had some extra mouth that looked like a million dollars on a tough hunting day. So much so that the other dogs were put in the box so as not to interfere with a phenomenal performance. My biggest point is the fact that the fast, clean mouthed dogs are far more disruptive than any dog giving some extra barks in the check period.

Mybeagles

[augerhead]

Mybeagle says[quote][/quote]My biggest point is the fact that the fast, clean mouthed dogs are far more disruptive than any dog giving some extra barks in the check period.

Well I guess this says it all, I hope you get the chance to run with a fast clean dog maybe you would have a different out look. I think not sure you may have had a bad experience with some race wreckers. We are refering to rabbit dogs not just highflying culls. Trust me once you have owned a fast clean rabbit dog you will change your mind

[bluemouse]

I am a rabbit hunter only never been to a trial to watch the dogs compete against one another. But what I have seen in the field is that a dog that belongs to a pack where they all work together to keep the race going, if this hound has the brains to slow down and hark now and then as the other pack hounds spread out to search for the rabbit I have seen this hound keep the others close to the lose and has kept young dogs from wandering to far in searching for the rabbit. I can understand if he is blowing a hole in the ground but on a tough lose this hated hound can sometimes keep the pack close to the lose making it easier for the pack to keep the race going. Most dogs will figure out the lying dog pretty quick but if this hound produces rabbits your dog will figure that out faster than most people sitting on the tail gate. So guys you can speak your minds and call me nuts be I have watched this play out multiple times on hard checks. I only got a few potlickers and some day I hope to see the cream of the crop run and if I werent saving up to be poor I would buy me a super dog. If I had one of these super dogs he would still have to ride in the back with the rest of the trash cause sisaroo still rules the roost.

[Newt]

There is nothing wrong with a field trial dog and I never can figure out why more trialers don't speak up when their sport is be maligned.

I also had that thought. If I owned a dog that I thought was a "Champion" I would be pounding my chest and calling out anyone that voiced doubts.

[bbg]

There is nothing wrong with a field trial dog and I never can figure out why more trialers don't speak up when their sport is be maligned. A trial dog is not necessarily a hot nose dog or a race breaker just as rabbit killer dogs are not all great snow dogs and circlers. Most trialers I know run their dogs all the time under all conditions and expect them to perform. They just like to trial also.

Buck,

I trial some and judge when I can. My point is not to malign field trials but make light of the different styles of hounds. If you start attending some of the trials you will see what I'm talking about. It's a common dialogue with field trials yet the fast rough hounds do the best any ANY extra bark is viewed as the worst fault a dog can have.. When the extremely fast and rough dogs do not place at the trials you will hear a bunch of crying and guys threatening to leave the sport because they feel cheated.

You are correct not all trial dogs are bad and not all hunting dogs are good. Most of both are average or below. I have not had the pleasure to watch any extremely fast dogs that were adequate on a real cold hunting day. I have seen some dogs that had some extra mouth that looked like a million dollars on a tough hunting day. So much so that the other dogs were put in the box so as not to interfere with a phenomenal performance. My biggest point is the fact that the fast, clean mouthed dogs are far more disruptive than any dog giving some extra barks in the check period.

Mybeagles

A dog "giving some extra barks in the check" has nothing to do with nose power. This is very disruptive to the pack because they are constantly packing to him rendering them unable to work the check. A dog that opens earlier than others on scent may have more nose. If he produces the rabbit. Cold trailing and not producing the rabbit is disruptive to the pack because they are constantly packing to him and unable to hunt. I agree that a rough, over competitve dog is also disruptive.
I am an AKC field trial judge and neither will last long when I'm judgeing. Your winners pack tells the story. If you did your job as a judge the pack will run well and no one will complain. I am also rabbit/hare hunter and won't tolerate those dogs in my own kennel either. I could easily kill 100 rabbits a year over my dogs but choose not to.

[See low]

]Mybeagle says[quote][/quote]My biggest point is the fact that the fast, clean mouthed dogs are far more disruptive than any dog giving some extra barks in the check period..... .you gotta be just joking to get the guys fired up, right? common sence will tell you that the closer a dog is to the actual rabbit the better he can smell it.... i find that those extra barking slower dogs will tear a young dog race all to crap.. if i have a young dog that just really dont know how to get up on a rabbit.. i want to run him with the hardest pushing dog i can find... teach him a thing or to....now some can step up to the challenge and some cannot.... but i.ll take my chances..one of my hunting buddys has a young dog that will get farther and farther behind a rabbit by himself.... he has a awesome nose and really wants to push but he just doesnt know how....i have an older more mature male that can really push and knows how to get up on a rabbit.....i told him he should run with my male every chance he gets but ,,, he just wont have it,,,,,we went out last night for a chase...its bad dry here so the senting conditions are less than awesome to say the least... we cast our " clean mouthed fast dogs" and had several get out the way jack races...then we caught those and cast some young dogs,,,,, 14 and 15 mnth old dogs and the running went down hill majorly.... why do you think that happened? i would really like for you to please give me your theory..... My Beagles....

[fasttrackpa]

There is nothing wrong with a field trial dog and I never can figure out why more trialers don't speak up when their sport is be maligned.

I also had that thought. If I owned a dog that I thought was a "Champion" I would be pounding my chest and calling out anyone that voiced doubts.

I definitely have my opinions, but have had more than one internet arguement. Don't like it...I would much rather have a hound with some extra mouth in good scenting, than a hound that blows up a race in any conditions. You can get the whole package. But if you want to run when it is below zero and the snow is powdery you will get extra mouth in good conditions. I hunt my hounds first, trialing is what we do when we cannot hunt. I let my hounds speak for themselves and speed is relative. If my hound is running a rabbit, I want him telling the world, there is no such thing as too much mouth when on a rabbit track. This is my opinion.

I will run my hounds with any one any time

[dog]

Question for all.......Do any of you own a really fast hound with an extremely cold nose? Can run in nearly any condition....except for eddiewilliams, you have already stated you have a kennel full of them.

Yep ,I have one

[pineridgebeagles]

Right on Andy well said. Al

[bucks better beagles]

All right Dog: You have given me the strength to come out of the closet...I have one too.

[augerhead]

MEE TOOO0

I was sittin her thinking how can there be such a big difference in what beaglers expect out of there hounds. And I thought about coon hunting, getting a dog that will tree a coon a round here is a snap and alot of people just want to tree a coon. They don't really care how it takes place as long as they get the meat up the tree. Now on the other hand a drop from the truck get struck and hooked quick coon dog isn't quit as easy to find. I guess what I am trying to say is if your goal is to kill a rabbit when it is zero and 3 ft of snow then some of the stuff we are talking about might not be an issue to you. But I am trying to run dogs don't shoot hardly any. To me listening to a bunch of barking dogs trail a rabbit around is about like listening paint dry. I want the dog that stands out, dominates or at least is trying to. I want him hunt on a run, run the rabbit with the intent to catch with as few faults as possible. Not saying there easy to find or that I have a kennel full, but they are out there. Set you expectations high, don't settle for less unless you just want to kill a rabbit.JMO no offence intended

[dog]

Dont get me wrong , he has his faults , but if hunting is tuff and i want to find rabbits and circle them back to the gun , he is the first dog i load , he will hunt a 100 mph , head up , can produce a rabbit anywhere , runs the front of my pack 95% of the time , will leave them in his dust on occasion . he has a huge nose , will sometimes drive you nuts on a cool , frosty morning but i will put up with it , 90% of the time he will produce , if the other 10% dont heat up quickly he will move on , the only complaint i have with my other dogs is they are not like him , lol , im not a trialer , i pleasure run and hunt , i try not to take this stuff to seriously , if i did i wouldnt enjoy it as much as i do , i dont have a world beater , nor do i wish to have one . i just like to let these little guys do there thing and set back and soak it in , even my culls amaze me at times with what they are able to do . some days they make it look so easy , other days it looks as hard as it is

[See low]

I to have a really fast dog with a really cold nose