Anyone near Ironwood Michigan know.... (Dean Carli)

[Chris]

Chris, if you have any interest I have several pretty good young hounds I'll sell for considerably less than $600 that will no doubt suit your needs. None of them exceptional but good hunting dogs with no glaring faults. I have (as usual) too many to get the running on them they need and deserve. I'll put them in the woods and you decide a fair price if any of them suit you. I'm not anxious to sell any of them but you'll do right by them I know, and they're lucky to get out once a week as things are currently. Mostly males but a few females available. PS- there's little or no Branko behind these hounds. All have made the cut through two cullings.

That sounds good Steve. I had a really nice female killed recently, who was tough as nails and could go hard 3 out of every 5 days, and her loss really hurt the rotation. Folks probably laugh hearing this but 8 good adult dogs are barely enough. I've been running 3 dog packs and the dogs are tough, but none can stand more than about 2 hard days of gunning out of about every 5 day stretch - at least not long term. I'm using them all more than that now. For a few days recently I had 2 packs going at the same time and that killed the rotation all to hell. They were all wooped and I had to assemble a runable pack out of the remaining that weren't lame. When you find a really good one you can't really be so picky to cull for foot, so some of them just don't run together as smoothly as I'd like with the 2 different speeds going. It's good that when someone brings a dog I can run good with just about anything, but it's bad for mixing up runable packs.

Anyhow, I'll send you a PM and I'm sure we can work something out.

Chris, you are a long ways from Michigan, the internet is a wonderful tool. If I were to be considering buying a high price hound that I wasn't able to see run I would put a feeler out on these site to ask if anyone had anything good or bad to say about the person selling the hound.

Yes, my impatience and being busy certainly hurt there. I did ask a couple of guys and the one I heard back from didn't have any info. and the other apparently didn't get my message. Although I don't really think $600 is "high price" for a good dog - it sure is high for a cull.

please post the pedigree on here as i am curious to see how "plastered with branko" this dog is.

Don't see why not. I'll scan it in when I get the scanner fired up.

I agree with Stoney Branch Kennels. One mans junk is another mans treasure.

OK Chad, how about I list a 6 dog Tritronics for sale for $600. You send me the money and I send you a beat up 2 dog Sportmaster. Is my trash still your treasure? Or, does the seller have some responsibility to deliver an item as advertised? Stony thinks you deserve what you got because you didn't go see the collars before you bought them. Still agree with him?

[Chris]

please post the pedigree on here as i am curious to see how "plastered with branko" this dog is.

Here's the reg.


No Branko up close, huh?

[CHAD_PLUNKETT]

Chris,
I totally agree with you being mad after telling the guy that you didnt want a dog with Branko bloodlines. Then he tells you it isnt branko and then come to find out the dog had some Branko blood in it.

I have nothing against Branko dogs at all. Let me clear that up before I make people mad lol.

But still you should have watched the dog run before buying it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes I still agree with Stoney.

The comparision the you are making about the shock collars is crazy.

[WELLS WOODS]

I'd take a chance on a hound with that breeding for $600 anyyday. Guess you should have seen her run first! Looks like you're qiuck to complain, but maybe if you would shock her from following the vehicles, she might be allright. Seems to me the faults she has could be corrected by a good handler.

[Aaron Bartlett]

The comparision the you are making about the shock collars is crazy.

I agree Chad.
I would also hate to think I would pay $600 for any dog that I didnt watch run OR even ask who the Sire and Dam of the dog was! Another saying comes to mind..........

HERE'S YOUR SIGN!

[Chris]

The comparision the you are making about the shock collars is crazy.

Please explain to me why. In both cases you agree to buy something. In both cases you don't receive what you agreed to buy. Please articulate to me where this logic is flawed. In which case is it more OK to get stolen from?

I would also hate to think I would pay $600 for any dog that I didnt watch run OR even ask who the Sire and Dam of the dog was!

Aaron, does spending that much on a dog make you uncomfortable? Do you contend that you can buy good dogs all day long for $200 or $300. Were you given the best dog you've ever had for free? Would spending $600 on some else's word, with the chance you could be taken advantage of bother you greatly? Would it make it hard to make the rent? I think I understand why you feel the way you do.

[Bev]

We've bought and sold dogs all different ways over the years - even sight unseen and just by the word of the seller, and they've bought by our word of what we thought our hound was like. Once in a while one would come back, but we were happy to take a hound back that didn't suit the new owner based on his own experience with the dog. We've sold them out of state on trial basis, and after a couple of weeks the check comes with a "thank you, he's great for me." We've bought them out of state on a trial basis, and the dogs have pretty much been what the owner told us he was. We've rarely been burned.

Sometimes a dog would come to us (found somewhere, or owner passed, etc. and was brought to us) and we've given them away and told the prospective new owner that we knew little about the dog and if he didn't work out, the owner could do "whatever." In those situations, sometimes the dog works out, sometimes not, but nobody's out much either way; it's worth a try.

We hound people have to trust each other to a great extent to improve our kennels. If there's a hound in Gulfport, Mississippi that I think (based on what I'm told) would be great for my needs, I can't just hop in the Jeep, drive 781 miles to go see him run first. Maybe his bloodline isn't available close by. There just has to be a certain amount of trust involved, and the willingness to reverse it if it doesn't work out.

I gotta disagree with the "oh well, you had it comin'" philosophy. Shame on all of us if we can't do each other a little better than that. JMHO.

[Aaron Bartlett]

Aaron, does spending that much on a dog make you uncomfortable?

Not if I watched it run and had decided that the dog would fit my needs.

Do you contend that you can buy good dogs all day long for $200 or $300.

I couldnt but ive been told im pretty picky.

Were you given the best dog you've ever had for free?

I wish that was true.

Would spending $600 on some else's word, with the chance you could be taken advantage of bother you greatly?

If I made the decision not to go see the dog run and bought the dog anyway it would be my problem if I ended up not likeing it. I have bought dogs that I watched and some that I didnt watch that I didnt end up liking but I didnt end up crying on the internet about it. Heck I didnt even tell the previous owner I didnt like the dog. I simply sold the dog and cut my losses.

Would it make it hard to make the rent?

I dont pay rent but thanks for your concern.

[CHAD_PLUNKETT]

Chris,
A couple of years ago me and my uncle went to a field trial. He met me at my house and rode with me to the trial. I had 2 of my dogs in one compartment of my box together. He put his female on the other side by herself. It took us 2 hours and fifteen minutes to get to the trial. When we got there he opened the box and his female was acting real spooked. I'm talking had crazy eyes and the whole nine yards. This dog would lick u to death before that day. When it came time for his cast to run he went out with his female and she flat wouldnt do nothing. Im talking just stood and stared at the other dogs that where on the ground running. Never even tried to run with them. Within the next week she bit my uncle twice. Once in the field and the other time in his kennel. She never ran again. He took her out several times after that and she just wouldnt run a rabbit.

What happened that day is beyond me. Was it the 2 hour and 15 minute ride in the box by herself? Who knows.

What I'm saying is that when the dog left Michigan it might have been the dog the guy said it was. But in a plane from Michigan to New Hampshire who knows what happened. Her crate might have been dropped and made her flip out or something like that. Who knows?

But to say your going to put an ad out in a book about this guy is crazy. Especially when something could have happened to her on the flight and its not the guys fault.

Yes you are right if you bought a 6 dog unit and i sent you a 4 dog unit then you are correct that thats not right and I ripped you off. But you cannot compare that to the situation that your in with this dog.

Our opinion if a dog is good or not is just that. Our opinion. Some people hate ubgf dogs and say there junk and some say they hate little pack dogs and there junk. Its just our opinion on what we like.

In this situation the guys opinion was that she was a great dog and worth $600.

[JMurphy]

Chris:
God knows I hate to agree with you on anything but I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect someone to answer specific questions honestly.As far as what you should do,that is up to you.I think the more important thing in your case is getting the type of dog you want.you make at least part of your living from your hounds.That puts you in a different boat than the rest of us.There are several breeders that I wouldnt have a problem buying a pup or young dog from sight unseen.That is because I know of their hounds reputation and more importantly I know their reputation as being honest people.Most of the time that means several people that I respect have gotten hounds from them and they are satisfied and I have seen those hounds.However If I made any part of my living from hounds I would call breeders that ran in similar condtions to me and I would have a prepared list of questions.If those questions were answered to my satisfaction I would make an appointment to go see those hounds run in the conditions that are important to me.Based On the little that I know about your running conditions I would talk to people like Steve Corey ,JimMerritt in NS and maybe Terry Mcbride. As far as the branko thing goes I share a similar overall opinion but wouldnt buy or not buy a dog because it is a particular line.However that is up to you. I would also contact other people in your kind of business and who run in similar conditions.If they brag up their dogs I would go and watch them run in the conditions that are important to you.It is just a matter of how important it is to you to find the kind of hounds you are looking for.I probably would never spend 4 or 5 thousand dollars atrip and severalweeks of my time find hounds that suited me.However if I was in your business and ran in the very harsh conditions that you do then I would be willing to.I am sure you know all of this but sometimes it helps to get it reinforced.Anyway good luck in your search for hounds.

J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel

[Bev]

I wanna clarify something. When I made my post, I in no way was inferring that Dean was shady or crooked - I don't know the man. Many times there are circumstances going on where people aren't free to discuss it broadly, there are two sides to every story, and some times things just come up where it swallows your time and you can't act as quickly as you would otherwise. My comments were more in relation to my own experiences and some of the responses, not necessarily this situation in particular. I hope things get settled on both ends of the deal.

[NorWester]

Ive read this thread twice now and all I can say is WOW. No reason left to wonder why it is so hard to find good dogs. A good many on here seem to be finding any excuse to leviate the seller from any responsibility in this deal, and thats ridiculous. Some seem to recommend just shutting up and re-selling the dog....THATS SHAMEFUL. If everything Chris has related is indeed the truth and factual......he's been ripped off plain and simple. Saying one mans treasure is anothers trash when used in reference to a dog that would rather run a car than a rabbit just shows me there is a whole lot of garbage masquerading as beagles being bred and used and no doubt sold by some members of this board and thats almost UNBELIEVABLE.

[blackdirt beagles]

that about sums it up!

[Adam M. O'Donnell]

I guess after all that's been said, and the Sellers name spread abroad as a crook. If he wouldn't consider buying to dog back under the "misrepresented" honor code. Then yes I would consider Dean a crook! And forever labeled in my "Do Not Buy From" book!
Chris, has Mr. Dean Carli been aproached? And what was his responce? I hope a guy of your stature presented the seller with the oportunity to make this right with you before the bashing started!

[swing]

I was just wondering if you would scratch a dog for this in a hunt?
I guess it would depend if it was in a congested area or if it was on the Interstate.
If it was on the Interstate they could go with fast game in L.P. but in P.P. you would be back in the truck no matter what,( Unless you were related to the judge, then we would re run the cast whether you won or not) lol
Redtick wouldnt want to score it unless it brought the car back around to the gun. Heres your sign.