Please read this!!!!!!!!!

[KyRidgeRunner]

Hey Guys,

In a recent post a person (hubertsoutlaw) wrote the following:

If you go to most NKC Hunts you can usually can tell who will have a dog in the finals. Greensburg Frank Fulk, Bardstown, The Ashbaws or how ever you spell ther name. The best dog usually don't win at there clubs, the pencil does. In AKC I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it is less likely. You have Two or three judges, judging all the cast. Then they pick what dogs did the best to them. My dog didn't get brought back to the winners pack in the one AKC Trial I went to. Was i cheated? No my dog was not. He got beat! The Five or Six Trials I went to Bardstown and Greensburg Did my dog get beat. In the six trials I have a 4TH and 3RD. I should have a 1st and a 1st or 2nd. I should have made it past the first round on four of the six times I was at Each club. I was Cheated!!

I hope he realizes he has just accused two of the best clubs in Ky of cheating (the Bluegrass Beagle Club was named Little Pack Club of the Year this year). The people he mentioned (Frank, Tony, and Steve) are not the ones he accused. They never judge their own dogs in a cast ( it's against ARHA rules). So the people he says are cheating are the judges from these clubs, as well as judges from visiting clubs that are kind enough to help out.

He also wrote:

They think it will stop me from comming but it won't.

If this guy thinks we have some sort of a personal vandetta against him he should know that when this post was read at our meeting last night it took us 20 minutes just to try and figure out who he was.

Finally,

If this young man thinks he was cheated there is a process for filing a protest. He has never done this. I guess he would rather get on the computer and badmouth a lot of hardworking club members than go through proper channels.

Sincerely

Jeff Pinkerton
Vice-President
Bluegrass Beagle Club

[crewchf]

God bless the judges for sure,, got an idea it AIN'T easy!!! Never mind trying to please everyone there who is competeing. I'm new at this trialing stuff but last year at a beagle trade day my president was at the event helping to point out what a bench judge looks for in beagles. Now he said to me that he didn't want to look at my hound there, I didn't think much of it being new but Was this so no one would acuse him of cheating down the road if my hound took a bench first place at our club??? Man We Got Problems Here!!!!!!

Crew Chief

[DRamey]

I have never been to this club for a hunt, but I wholeheartedly disagree with this message board being a forum for accusations of cheating. Why not give a scenario and allow us judges to give our opinions, without naming names and locations? If one trialer is disgruntled and turns a beagler who has never trialed against us, we all lose. My Dad taught me that opinions are like buttholes, that we all have one. Conclusion: No one's opinion is any more special than anyone else's. WHen posting, use this test. 1. Is it true? 2. Is it necessary? and 3. Is it kind? There are places where opinion is acceptable, as in "blueticks are my favorites," "line control over speed" etc. When it is doubtful, unnecessary and unkind, think before hitting the "enter" button. I am sorry that this one had a bad experience at a club. I have had bad experiences at clubs before when participants left the hunt throwing gravel with their tires in anger because they didn't agree with my judgments.

[warddog]

I find it funny for folks to cry over being cheated, buddy judged or whatever. First off when YOU decide to go to a trial you are ageeing to have your dog judged by one or more of your peers. You pay your fees knowing full well that someone will make an opinion about your dog. I don't care if you think you have the best dog in the world, that's your subjective opinion and the judges surely have their own. So what's best, speed, nose, line control, hunt, drive, jumping ability, mouth, color, size, butt hole size/ color/ shape, who owns the dog or who's handling the dog? I found out a long time ago that whenever your being rated by someone it is IMPOSSIBLE to fully take the subjectiveness out of the equation. I'm not saying there are not any honest people out there because there are a lot of them but being subjective is just human nature. We ALL like certain things better than others and when push comes to shove and all things being equal what we like better takes precedence if we are giving our opinion.

[pine top]

well kyridgerunner i,ve been sitting here trying to figer out how i wont to respond to this post and respond i do .
frist of all i agree with dramey 100% but this hubertsoutlaw swung the door wide open now i have been in arha since april 1999 i have been juged in just about every state and have juged in most of these states i have never been cheated much less 6 times at the same club every juge that draws a cast of dogs wrather he,s old /young/ fat /slim/ male/ or female if thay go out and do there best with that cast if thay missed some checks or missed a jump it does not matter becouse thay done there best and did not have to even be there.
so what this guy is saying in my opinion is absolutly RIDICULOUS .
if he only knew how silly he sounds making thes kind of accusation,s he would be embarrassed .
and the thing is i dont think i know any one at the club he is speaking of and i fell sure he was juged by differnt juges .
well just my opinion jerry carter .

[Ted Peercy]

I can't speak for the one club, but I've been to Greensburg several times and several of these guys, including Frank Fults have been to our club on occasions. The judges at Greensburg are as good as they get. He is right about Frank Fults in one respect. Frank is in the finals and wins a lot. And the reason is, he has some mighty good dogs. Ted Peercy-Willow Springs Kennel

[VOILESKENNEL]

I peronally am new to field trials I have only been to a couple of ukc trials. I would like to run arha but there are none in my area. But when I get a dog that I am sure has what it takes to wins I will make the drive. From what I have seen in field trials I would say that the judges do there best to be fair. When I do get a hound that I am ready to trial I want him to win because he earned it not because I am friands with the judges. I think that most judges award the top dog the win no matter what. Most people will let their personal experiences judge wheather they come back to more trial. Not what they here from other people. If my dog doesn't make it noticable that he is the best dog then maybe he isn't.

[Huntin54]

I don't trial but maybe his dog just plain sucks. And maybe the people are winning beacuse the have good dogs. I think the man just likes to complain.

[CORNERSTONE]

Hey guys,

I am a newcomer to Little pack an have only hunted in two fun trials, but from what I have seen these judges go way above what the average beagler would ever think they do to keep things fair.

Myself I have seen them stumble from the woods breathing hard and the heck torn out of them and apoligize for missing one of the checks they could not reach.

None of the guys in this Club ever ever knew me, but my dog has done as good as I could have wished for.

Maybe if ya put in a protest for cheating you should have to do some judging to see the other side of what is believed to be the problem.

[Blue Bandit]

i am doomed.

[KyRidgeRunner]

Hey Guys,

I guess you all are getting pretty tired of all this bickering on this forum. I know I am. This will be the last I have to say on the subject. I just feel like there were some points made in hubertsoutlaw's last post that need to be addressed. First of all he did say he was sorry (sort of):

I am sorry about the way I handled this and I will aplogize to the greensburg club and to Frank. I should have realized that if I had a problem with someone who I thought was cheating or who still is, to go through the right channels. The other club I feel the same about.

But then he went on to say:

Just answer me this, why when Frank has judged my dog when I was handling him he never scores over two strikes but when my buddy handles him he places. Also Frank was shocked when my buddy told him it was my dog when he did place.

One answer to this question is that maybe Frank never saw this dog score more than two checks in a cast before. Maybe this dog never did score more than two checks before. Anyway, this is certanly not evidence that Frank cheated. I will tell you Frank has judged my dogs several times (by the way, I have never won a cast Frank judged) and have found him to be one of the most fair and hardworking judges in ARHA today.

He also wrote:

Look back at the past issues of the rabbit hunter and you will see the ashbaws do good at that club only.

I guess to make a judgement based on this accusation we would need to know how many other hunts they attended (I do not know the answer to this question, and I suspect neither does he). What i do know is this:

Tony and Steve Ashbaugh have some quality hounds.

They run their dogs several times a week.

Tony won the World Hunt a few years ago (he must have had a lot of buddies judging to get that far).

They attend very few hunts outside of those put on buy their home club.


Finally, I want to say this, I know abuses do happen from time to time and I know the whole system has a major flaw (If the best dog in a hunt and the second best dog in a hunt draw out together in the first round, the best dog may win the hunt and second best dog won't get second place, he will go home empty handed), but the vast majority of judges do an exelant job and work within ARHA guidlines.

I think most people see these accusations for what they are:
SOUR GRAPES

Sincerely

Jeff Pinkerton
Vice-President
Bluegrass Beagle Club

[Rusty Shackleford]

It is plain to see what this outlaw guy is made of. I wonder if he wants some cheese to go with his whine.

seriously, sounds like this guy has issues

maybe he needs to buy a new dog

[Big Mike]

Hurbertsoutlaw,
You were going good until I saw you were talking about LP. If you really want to get greased go to a PP hunt in Michigan. Now those boys will show what home cooking is all about.
I've been raising and running hounds over 40 years, however I have been running ARHA LP & PP for only a little over 5 years, I believe I know what a rabbit dog is. In that 5 years I can count on one hand the times that I have NOT had a dispute with a PP judge. Where as I have run in an equal amount of LP Hunts and never had a reason to even question a judge.

Just one man's experience, for what it's worth.

PS
I haven't run in Ky..... yet

[checkmate kennels]

Blue bandit you are not doomed i have heard nothing but good things about you and i have met you myself and feel the same way. This is how i see jeremys post some of the things he said about the buddy judging are true but i have never felt that way about greensburg but it does happen and when it does i give that club one more try and if it happens again i just dont ever go back to that club period i would rather drive a few extra hours and get judged fairly. if more trailers did this these clubs would have to close up.if you go and pay the entry fee you are agreeing to take what you get unless it is a direct rules violation.

[hubertsoutlaw]

Jeremy Here. You all need to read my post better. I am not crying, and I believe the people that said my dog sucks. That's cool! I guess you can say that living in Texas. It is pretty safe to say I won't drive to texas to run against you. I have been told by many people that my dog is really good. Frank Faulk son, Glen Wright(One of the best Judged Out there) Dale peters, Josh and Rick patterson, Kevin Grimes, and the list could go on forever. I never said one thing bad about the CLUB at Greensburg. I said something about a guy that belonged to the club. You can pick apart my post and bring out the negitive things I said, because I said them. Read everything. I dont mind Frank or Tony as people, Just as Judges. This is getting no where. I feel the way I do. You all can feel how ever you want. I will see most of you at the trials this year. The more you denie homecooking the longer it will go one. If you are fine with it I am to. I guess. People won't say what they really feel anyway because they don't want to look bad. I would rather look bad and win, then look good a lose. That way I know my dog earned it. JEREMY