BOLDSTROKES

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Tue May 31, 2005 9:48 pm

how many people out there own line bred boldstrokes and what kind of hound are they as far as hunt running style and speed,,,,i have only seen two boldstroke hounds and they were musket and scout,,,,

bullboy · Post by **bullboy** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:22 am

i would use search and look for them it's been talk about before and usually turns into a bashing so i won't reply

Adam M. O'Donnell · Post by **Adam M. O'Donnell** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:34 am

There is a big post talking about Boldstroke's on the rabbithunteronline.com forum under "Bloodlines".
I have a half "Boldstroke" hound, and the only fault I have with him is his mouth could be better, and I know he got his mouth from the Boldstroke side.

bunnie harvester · Post by **bunnie harvester** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:22 am

Well fellows, I got some BOLDSTROKE pups in the kennel, went to NC, to visit with Mark & Chris Overcash, Ran BOLDSTROKE REBEL,FRONT PAGE GIRL and a bunch of puppys, from 6 months to a year old, those pups ALL got hunt,handle and GUTS, REBEL has Now GRAND Championed out in UKC, Championed NKC LP, WON 2 or 3 Stated Hunts,. he hunts very hard and he KNOWS were the rabbit went, he has a squall ,chop ,and plenty of it, not shortage in anything I seen down there,, I also have 2 sisters here that are full BOLDSTROKE, PUPS that run, both are good hunters and have plenty of Squall,,,,
NOW,, Mark and Chris are away on a Fishing trip to Hatteras, NC...... SO they will be back in here on Sunday I think,, lets see what they got to say.....
Pwill has Musket, so he may jump in here also

JIMMIE ABSHIRE · Post by **JIMMIE ABSHIRE** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:53 pm

ACTALLY USED TO RUN DOGS FOR GILL, DIFFERENT GUY BUT GOOD GUY
BACK IN THE ARHA HAY DAYS I CAMPAINED A COUPLE OF DOGS THE ONE I HAD WAS GREAT BUT 2 MUCH MOUTH FOR ME BUT COULD RUN A RABBIT. JUST CANT REMEMBER THE HOUNDS NAMES I ALSO BOUGHT A PUP AND RAISED NICE BITCH BUT SOMEBODY FROM MISSISSIPI WANTED HER WORSE THAN I

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:07 pm

I run against Chris and Mark Overcash all the time as we hit the same trials. I have seen a few of their dogs run and all were good dogs. In my opinion Rebel is the best Boldstroke dog that I have seen go. He has an honest mouth no cold trailing, very good hunt and is a jump dog extraordinaire and can run a rabbit also. He is medium fast in foot speed and runs a good line. He is also AKC, UKC and NKC registered.

Big Dog

rshaw · Post by **rshaw** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:46 pm

I have Boldstroke and Melton dogs in my kennel. As far as I'm concerned I'll take the Boldstrokes. They have a ton of hunt and love to run a rabbit. They are a little tough to start at times, but once they are going they never stop. Mine run a bit of trash every now and then, but that is usually on the bad days where we go for 3 or 4 hours without hitting a good track. I try to throw a little Melton blood in there every now and then. I have only had these dogs a little over a year and I wouldn't give them up for anything. Hopefully, I will get to some trials this fall. Chris and Mark down in caroliona have the start of the Boldstrokes line. All of my dogs trace back to Musket and some of the others that they have. I hope in the future I could run into these guys and have a long talk. I'm always curious to find out more about the line. These dogs may not be the fastest, but they make up for it with great line control and the desire to never quit!!!!

pwill · Post by **pwill** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:00 pm

Well here we go again, I hope this stays civil as it usually gets into a pissing contest. I have 18 Boldstrokes now ... Most go back to Musket who is still reproducing great pups. I have some that go back to Rebel. Musket is really the back bone to the modern Boldstroke blood as he is a proven reproducer. He always throws great pups. Rebel is the next in line as he is making a name for himself at the trials as well as a reproducer. He also throws great pups.

Mark and Chris have great dogs but they didn`t start the line as someone said, These dogs have be around for a long time, way before they ever thought about a Boldstroke. Gil Davis started this line and put many, many years of hard work into them. He sold what he had to me and Mark a couple of years ago and we have selectivly bred what we knew would make great dogs. I don`t trial as much as Mark and Chris but make no mistake I have plenty of dog power here. I personally don`t know of another line that is as solidly line bred as the Boldstrokes, I`m sure that there are other lines bred the same way I just don`t know of any myself. When we bred a dog we know pretty much what we will get, we have seen it time and time again. Bred hard and cull harder, thats the only way..

I know some on here don`t like the Boldstrokes or Gil or maybe even me, and I admit there have be some mistakes in the past, nobody is perfect. But the dogs don`t lie.......they tell it like it is......... they don`t quit!!!

If I had to give any advise go see the dogs run, any dogs before you buy..
Paul
Musket x Maggie pups 1 1/2 weeks old , 3 males and 3 females

BOYS

GIRLS

rshaw · Post by **rshaw** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:34 pm

Sorry pwill, got my facts mixed up.

JMurphy · Post by **JMurphy** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:42 pm

Jimmie A:
Did you get Maria and chester bred?

J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:05 pm

well i have always heard good things about the breed, mostly they had a ton of hunt and was pretty clean,,,,now this is just hear say never seen a boldstroke hound let alone seen one run,,,,,,i have thought many times about putting some strokes in my blood line but as you say then i hear all the moaning about them,,,,,,,maybe in a year or so i can throw some strokes in with my tracker sam blood,,,,,but it was just a question,,,,,,, do you have any pics of your older hounds,,,,,

Gill Davis · Post by **Gill Davis** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:37 am

Well Adam you have no idea of what your saying when you say the mouth you7 have on your dog is only by the boldstroke side.. as a matter of fact in genetics if a mouth problem or any problem shows again you have to have two family members on both sides to show a different color , mouth, and several other things in order to see a repeat of the same thing. In other words- you can't take a bird that is white and get a yellow unless there is a yellow bird in both backgrounds somewhere.
SOmetimes a down to earth simple explanation is the best so others can understand. but, what youve said- your mouth problem about your dog is not due to the quote un quate boldstroke dogs. and man I have raised 100s your may not know enough facts to say its from the boldstroke dogs you lack mouth as a matter of fact Jimmy abshire on here before me probably thinks thats about the dumbest statement hes heard in some time. !! Hi james! See- Adam once in a while you can get a mouth problem de to just about anything . and some folks sing different too. but I assure you that you are a very lucky man to have half of the boldstroke line bred dogs in the dog your running. cause I never had any trouble with being very proud of the dogs that I am very familiar with here. ever! and only the lack of experience and knowlege of seeing the incredable things the dogs directly related to your own can be achieved by some of the best in this world like making hound of the year by nine moutnh of age with the highest score ever achieved between first and second place runners up.. and taking forth in the word hunt at the same young age and winning hound of the year before hitting nine months old. Also having mother winning back to back state hunts in a row to grand in only a few hunts. also many many hounds bred the ssame winning in lest than five hunts there tittles and having mouths so loud that no-one in the cast didn't know what dog it was! Now- as far as one dog somewhere with less voice? even in an absolutly incredably achieving line- well this is possible anywhere. but I will let you know that! YOur dog looks exactly like the other grands and champions on the boldstroke side. SO- I feel you got a hell of a dog! and that not becouse of a guess work out cross in the boldstroke line.. wether you know this or not dogs that are not related what so ever will give less line up in genetic traits.. One thing for sure on the professionally thought out and bred boldstroke hounds is-- they all carry the mail.. and never let you down. and they all stretch out and run that rabbit hard and are very difficult to put down. SO-- what I have to suggest is doing your homework always before you say that a fault is one side that you don't know enough of to say that. If you want names of huge hard loud chop and bawl and yodleing hounds that are a riot to listen too. ask me! ANd another thing even with the outcross youve made away from the boldstoke hounds I bet you any amount you want that you won't out shine the pure bred ones in your next trial. although I myself have had luck and way more than normal outcrossing once in a while with what you might understand as highbred vigor. but, every outcross you take more chance of unplanned faults comming in like!! a bad motuh of one even maybe in the line you think isn't.. See you have to know the entire line not two or four but all!
I do!- why? becouse I have run everyone of them I made for over 35 years. and many will take a fine planned out incredable well bred hound as the boldstroke hounds and outcross and get a rabbit dog out of a poodle! but- one that isn't line bred watched perform in every relative and a planeed breeding is a guess! and every time you guess you can be much more suprised. Im sure the state hunt and many other hunt won by boldstroke hounds you own dogs outcrosses on the other side of boldstroke were there in some way or another and they couldn't win those hunts the boldstroke hounds did. and you know what? that the exact reason others won't beat your own hound too. YOu got good blood from these hounds weather you want to admitt that or not and I am one to show you exactly why and the incredable things I have seen each hound do in your hounds boldstroke side. why??? becouse- I knew them!

NOw- one dog I know granded as well with a long drown bawl was smokie but- he was a rabbit dog and chose to long bawl.. never lost a rabbit and filled the game bag. Now your dog is a direct decendent to Star obviously- I havent seen your pedigree- but I see my dogs int that hound. and the voice you complain of could be the other side of the blood as well. not boldstroke. see now-- this may be hard for you to understand but if your dog was related to smoke and you got less mouth then the genes matched up with another dog on the other side to repeat the lack. or the lack would not show.. Im not eithor side is bad in any way. but I sure know this! I didn't spend my life thinking and breeding and running dogs that wouldn't work harder than the millions I could simply go out and buy without the expense of going the entire expence of raising running paying out all expenses on every hound- working them to raise less thatn all the others. as a matter of fact I would still put down with any hounds in this world and be proud to watch them say ohh well that one did whip me but all the others that I know nothing about couldn't or are not as good. friend the is no more consistency in this world for a hard driving easy starting rabbit driving hound that I would rather hunt over in the purest ones in the boldstroke line-- I know of.
I have run with thousands of lines and never been ashamed of what I put down and never looked bad that any time anyone can tell about. you know why? cause we usually didn't need the other dogs around- and they found that they needed us to fill the game bag as high..

Compition? no worrys from me those dogs I brought always looked good and did well. even when luck wasn't on there side there was always many compliments of hounds hard work and the ones saying you should have won that. no-one wins them all. and if they think they can than them and there dogs are very lucky. but, for the times I went we were winning with different boldstroke hounds at a rate of over 98 percent and done in four or five hunts with a tittle. and bud thats not an accident! its good breeding and you got some of it in your hound. even if you want to say negeitive things about the having some of the most incredable hounds I knew of made in this lifetime-- I want to say put your outcross from boldstroke down with any pure boldstroke dog same age and watch and learn more about whats really true... let the dogs speak. NOw- what Im saying is-- not your dog in the compititon that has half boldstroke but the outcoss he has away from boldstroke. put them all down against a pure boldstroke hound and watch and learn about the hunt the jump the drive the abilitie.. see- many times boldstroke hounds are sold to meat and potatoe men.. they couldn't care less about compitition- but they have run with brag dog compition winners and had the owners say good golly why don't your get that dog into compition mine- is a grand and yours is a young pup and just burnt me up! lots of folks say- I bought mine to hunt. But you go see one that is pure Adam and understand- they won't look like less thatn what you seem to think is putting the drive in yours that is a carbon copy of BOldstrokes Star, little star, elsie, the parts of your dog youare proud of happens all the time in boldstroke hounds I insisted on it to breed myself. I can get along myself with less motuh if the dogs had more hunt as star did and elsie, and dead eye sally, and musket, and coolhand luke, and scout, and peggy, and mack too, Jimmy Abshire did't tell you why he didn't keep that last pup- it outran the shooped hounds of a big time hunter who paid a fortune for his hounds bragged on them to Jimmy for an hour before Jimmy took his little pup about four mouths old out with these adult hounds. Jimmy boldstroke pup was making every jump picking up every check and leaving those adult behind for hours and that man handed Jimmy a wad of cash --Quote from James-- that would choke a horse to buy his pup. boldstroke- what Jim? Mercedes? See that pup went to a hunter and never went to compition-- but I know from experience that the ones- I raised... ( ANd bred) I didn't have the money on top of all the food shock collers chain link fence- shots health- fees for registry-- too run maybe 100 champion hounds that could out run the ones people saw and bragged on!/ Its in the blood and how you breed and boldstroke pure and thought out is some of the best I ever had the advantage to hunt.

I will also say even the ones I didn't choose to personally breed for my own reason like maybe longer bawl not enough one thing or another - others will. and still have some of the best they ever had. But, what I bred to to make them all I had good reason and alot of well thought out plans to keep them every bit as tuff as the ones pure today will be. and I do watch what is going on... and my friends out there know I do care.

Im hunting felons knowadays- some folks call it bounty hunting- I run a 265 acrea farm. and a large buisiness and work crews all day and half the night. and I do a good job! I alway get done what I want done. and the best thing I ever did was watch over that boldstroke breeding I can't even begin to show you all the incredable things I have seen these dogs do. and if you get with others that have no problem with telling the things they bragged to me about.. youd know more about why your own dog will amaze you at times and its not- the boldstroke in that hound that your ashamed of mr! I can prove that to you in the field in the books and with the proud owners. Now another thing I cover here is some know how to start better than others the dogs fall off a log are easy to start for me always easier than any I ever started. can run full circle by four months on my farm. every pure hound.

Gill Davis · Post by **Gill Davis** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:37 pm

Oh one other real story you may find interesting- A guy one time called and told another ownere of a very young boldstroke hound that since he ran cottontaqils here he couldn't run in a akc trial in quebec against the fast hair hounds with a thirteen inch hound. and knowing his hound- that friend of mine jumped on a plain took this 13 month old on the rockie shores and for the first time he put it in Akc instead of the trials he was going to and winning by the way.
this young hound not only outran the dogs all the race but caught the hare after six hours. NOw- you do that with average hounds.
One first day of gun season this hounds mother went out with me. I was ready to shoot the first rabbit and it was causght not 25 yards in front of me on the way back. I took it from her sacked its head and put it in the pouch- whe ran out in a matter of a minute and started up another this time I planeed on shooting. so I heard her comming back again! I put the gun on fire and heard the rabbit squeel. caught another in the first 15 minutes in the briers. she did this two more times the same day so I had four and I went home in less than an hour had my limit and all my shells.
When luke was a pup he worked all day in the heat and the rabbits would run the soy fields tempretures would hit up to 98 degrees and as a pup he would drive them to exostion and when they would come outside the soy bean they would stagger and circles and he would snatch them right up and work up to the house with the feet hanging from his mouth.. the thing was- the pup was running on dry ground hot weathor and so many times I had gone out and watched other dogs that were ususally great hounds to what there owners said- and they couldn't run in the heat make looses al the time and couldn't keep it going and there were 3 and 4 yrears old! my pup was four months and never lost a beat. and I had some guys from Kentucky call me once and asked if I had any pups to seel they knew I raised these hounds... I had two pups! but I was was keeping the two for myself. I sold all the rest in the litter to people I knew..
THe two I randomly kept started runng rabbits by track at 3 months of age. to me! they should have been more interested in moms teet! the guys said no way! no pup could circle a wild rabbit at that age no way! I said- hey come on I will show you there moms not all dry yet. and the papers and we'll see.. both pups circled two rabbits alone. they offered many bucks and left emty handed. you have to keep your line and run them to know what to breed. many times I kept 8 out of 8 till they all ran before six months old and kept the ones I decided to maybe use after more running time. but- I paid the extra time and money to know.
let me say how I learned why line breeding and watching what goes in works. number one- genes are made up in each animal by the billions. If you want simply color you need the same simple color in any line to reproduce this. On both sides!!! somewhere.. but- wonder if youwant traits too. nose, aggression. then you need to find all these things in both sides. but- if they have some relatives that are lazy on both sides even far back- you will find another lazy dog comes back. FOlks Im very good at this and put my entire life on figuring this out and I can't tell you how important it is in breeding. If you got a dog that is such an outperformer in every other important facter like jumping locating and moving out that line right- and maybe even more sense thatn any learning commands faster yet has a little longer bawl but in every other way is tops. what do you do? most still breed it. I would seel it as a good rabbit dog after I learned long ago that if there is something missing it comes back-- SO the breeding got better- and more insightfull-- I found that taking the best of everything you need with miles of worn boots you know exactly the chances of your odds if you breed another with the same genes not too close but the same type to it. and it repeats good or bad its your choice. but- I can say now that the boldstroke dogs I know of and can suggest to you will be some of the best bred hunting hounds you can take out with more plan that most by knowing from doing.

Outcrossing in full if there is joe breeding fancy and not knowing the entire family on both sides complete outcrosses you get more differnt tendencys and more chance of suprise. cause when the genes are far too scattered your looking at a grab bad of traits not knowing. and if you getr one incredable dog he may not reproduce as well cause he was maybe the only one of ten that lined up like that in genes.

common sense will be the best way to go in any first thoughts.

Gill Davis · Post by **Gill Davis** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:07 pm

Lonewolf- northern tracker is a fine hound- he also has a grandson that is full boldstroke on the other side Named Champion Buffole Bill- hes a hard driving huge mouthed hound that anyone would be proud of. started on my farm at four motnth old- ran only a few times times in trial and championed in like 4 hunts and never went back had nothing lacking as he won and had nothing to his owner or anyone else to prove and is a fine rabbit hound. SO- this cross was done. any hound though that has been bred long term line breeding and after many generations of great reproduction proven over and over as the boldstroke hounds did and will continue to do. If they are outcrossed to any hound that is not as line bred what part of the dogs will come out more the ones not line bred with more of the exact tendencys we should want. or the one that has no realtive with the same genes? see- there are many great dogs that don't have any particular genes lined up from generations line bred sometimes two in a littler of champion bred hounds that are completely unrelated. but- you take a planned from on sight and in field watching breeding of many of the same performing hounds way back and you can get as many as 8 out of eight reproducers and champions if all ran in trials.. and hardly ever does every pup even see a trail. but- the one that is line bred more for more of the power tendencys will show more of themselves as they are the one that has been bred that way not the outcross that isn't line bred. if you mix sugar in your coffe you got a kinda new flovor right and it is differnt- but theres still more coffee! put a terd in your cup and you taste a terd. and you got to watch for the mistakes although some are far from a mistake and do bring class to the dish.

JIMMIE ABSHIRE · Post by **JIMMIE ABSHIRE** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:04 pm

GILL ITS SO GOOD TO HERE FROM MAN,I KNOW YOU KNOW THINGS ABOUT BREEDING THAT WOULD MAKE OTHERS SCRATCH THERE HEADS.
YOU ACTUALLY GOT ME STARTED IN MY OWN DIRECTION IN BREEDING BY LISTENING MY DAD ALWAYS SAID,THATS WHY WE HAVE 2 EARS AND 1 MOUTH SHUT UP AND LISTEN MORE ,I WAS WITH YA IN THE OLD DAYS AND REMEBER WELL DEAD EYE SALLY WHAT A BITCH CANT REMEMBER
THE MALES NAME I RAN FOR YA ,HUNT=PLENTIFUL,STAMINA =EVERLASTING A TOUCH 2 MOUTH MOUTH ACTUALLY REMEBER KY STATE WHEN THEY SHUT ME DOWN -I DO THE GOOD OL DAYS FINNALY THEY GOT ME IN THE END ON LITTLE RABBITS CUZ HE WAS THE ONLY DOG OF 5 IN LAST ROUND THAT COULD SMELL EM,HE MINUSED OUT I LOVE JUDGES WITH NO COMMON SENSE,BUT KNOW RULES ,I SOLD MY BEAMER PUP AT 6 MONTHS OLD FOR 1200.00 DOLLARS ,AFTER SHE LAID THE SMACK DOWN ON OTHER DOGS FOR SEVERAL HOURS HE WANTED HER WORSE THAN I ,ANY WAY GILL IF I CAN EVER BE OF ASSISTANCE IN ANYWAY HOLLAR AT ME 859-585-1083 JIMMIE ABSHIRE