new beagler is confused
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
another question i just thought up..... as stated by patch, he said that he labeled a dog tan/white with only a few spots of tan on the dog. so seeing as i was once told that the dominate color goes before the rest of the colors (i.e. the dog is mostly black then some spots of white and a tan head, the dog would be black/white/tan or if it is mostly white with a spot or two of black and a tan head, then it would be White/black/tan)?right or wrong? but i have yet to see a pedigree that states white as the first (dominate) color, why would that be? is it not good to have a white beagle or something?
Wow, Patch. 5 posts almost in a row, that bug must be moving around a lot, lol. You forget - "you 'n me" go waaaay back on these message boards, and I know your particular brand of snark when I see it. I can give it as good as I get, but I won't perpetuate any more discussion about this here. I'll do in a private message.
P.S., Let me know when you and Mrs. Patch go to re-do the living room. I'd like to bring a few friends and pick out the colors.
P.S., Let me know when you and Mrs. Patch go to re-do the living room. I'd like to bring a few friends and pick out the colors.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bev wrote:Wow, Patch. 5 posts almost in a row, that bug must be moving around a lot, lol. You forget - "you 'n me" go waaaay back on these message boards, and I know your particular brand of snark when I see it. I can give it as good as I get, but I won't perpetuate any more discussion about this here. I'll do in a private message.
Fair enough, just thought you might let us all in on what your seeing...
[/quote]P.S., Let me know when you and Mrs. Patch go to re-do the living room. I'd like to bring a few friends and pick out the colors.
[/quote]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks but, no thanks, feathers from your birds would surely clash with the whole room's decour'...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Junior wrote:another question i just thought up..... as stated by patch, he said that he labeled a dog tan/white with only a few spots of tan on the dog. so seeing as i was once told that the dominate color goes before the rest of the colors (i.e. the dog is mostly black then some spots of white and a tan head, the dog would be black/white/tan or if it is mostly white with a spot or two of black and a tan head, then it would be White/black/tan)?right or wrong? but i have yet to see a pedigree that states white as the first (dominate) color, why would that be? is it not good to have a white beagle or something?
Jr, my only guess is, white being a recessive gene, they never thought much about it becoming prevalent in the majority of a hounds colouring...Only a guess you understand...
No doubt about that, but I thought you liked the clash... Oh well, I'll just stick to decorating my own room.Thanks but, no thanks, feathers from your birds would surely clash with the whole room's decour'...
Is it true that lemon and white dogs must have black noses to meet the AKC standard? I bet Dan could answer that.
I bet he & Nance could too and would probably get a chuckle out of the notion... 
...I know it talks about the dark soft eye being appealing but lots of reds and lemons have the amber coloured eye.
To many other more important things in a good hound, than to worry about than the eye/nose colour...
Did you know when judging the shoulder of a hound, the point where the shoulder blade touches the back should be well behind the elbow. The shoulders are one of the most important parts of a hounds conformation and a well laid back shoulder(shock absorber) is essential for fluid motion and long endurance. We should work on spottting good shoulders and forget about the colour of the eyes or hide...
It is said to be bad if the elbows kick out, but worse if they are tied in...what do you think about that? No wait, we're liable to get some discussion going that might be useful to someone, better stop that...lol
...I know it talks about the dark soft eye being appealing but lots of reds and lemons have the amber coloured eye. To many other more important things in a good hound, than to worry about than the eye/nose colour...
Did you know when judging the shoulder of a hound, the point where the shoulder blade touches the back should be well behind the elbow. The shoulders are one of the most important parts of a hounds conformation and a well laid back shoulder(shock absorber) is essential for fluid motion and long endurance. We should work on spottting good shoulders and forget about the colour of the eyes or hide...
It is said to be bad if the elbows kick out, but worse if they are tied in...what do you think about that? No wait, we're liable to get some discussion going that might be useful to someone, better stop that...lol
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Montgomery Tony
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- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:23 pm
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Briarhoppers
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Hey Tony,
How you do'in...
Ya, it's all fun and Bev knows me, if she didn't, she would have kicked me out by now...
Lanelefgren has some really good pictures with the shoulder slope and proper angle marked on them.
The best way to tell, is to watch a hound run down hill, over rough ground. You'll see how well or not the shoulders work. A hound with good shoulders will run effortlessly. A picture of a stacked hound tells you nothing but the lines drawn on from the chest, where the shoulder should lay to the back, in proportion to the leg will give you the angle to look for, but you really have to see the hound run to tell much, he will be able to go day after day and never get shook in the front. In horses it's called a galloping shoulder and is the same for hounds...
How you do'in...
Ya, it's all fun and Bev knows me, if she didn't, she would have kicked me out by now...
Lanelefgren has some really good pictures with the shoulder slope and proper angle marked on them.
The best way to tell, is to watch a hound run down hill, over rough ground. You'll see how well or not the shoulders work. A hound with good shoulders will run effortlessly. A picture of a stacked hound tells you nothing but the lines drawn on from the chest, where the shoulder should lay to the back, in proportion to the leg will give you the angle to look for, but you really have to see the hound run to tell much, he will be able to go day after day and never get shook in the front. In horses it's called a galloping shoulder and is the same for hounds...
Briarhopper,
If I could do that, there would be no need for shows at the hunts... we could just judge them from the computer...lol
You really need to see the hound run, judges do the best they can by looking at a hounds straight way of going in the ring but even they don't have the assurance of picking them right, have you ever seen a hound in the ring gallop, no, they gait at a trot and don't break stride, they look more like cart horses than race horses...and that's my point, at least a hound having to hunt to be put on a bench, has a better chance of having the proper balance to carry the work that's required of him...
If I could do that, there would be no need for shows at the hunts... we could just judge them from the computer...lol
You really need to see the hound run, judges do the best they can by looking at a hounds straight way of going in the ring but even they don't have the assurance of picking them right, have you ever seen a hound in the ring gallop, no, they gait at a trot and don't break stride, they look more like cart horses than race horses...and that's my point, at least a hound having to hunt to be put on a bench, has a better chance of having the proper balance to carry the work that's required of him...
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Montgomery Tony
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:23 pm
Patch I beleive you ment Lefgren lane, I am starting to understand more about what you are saying by looking at the pictures.I Went out and looked at some of my dogs and I can tell some have shoulders that are layed back pretty fair,and some of them have shoulders that seem to be to close to being even with the elbow. I am going running thursday in some pretty rough mountains with some large hills. I am going to watch some down hill races , and do me some more learning about how a shoulder works. When I come back I will be ready for a new body part to discuss.Maybe that is one of the reason why after several days of hard hunting some dogs get what I call stoved up and have to lay off for a while. I lost a dog last year to a head on car collision,that I called Jake that could go on day after day.The best that I Remember he was built alot like the dogs you are talking about.
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Lefgren-Lane
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- Location: MO
First, your address book is correct for the e-mail Patch but not correct for the name on TAB. Let me see, we are Lanelefgren on the Beagle Board and on Rabbit Hunting Board, and Lefgren-Lane on TAB and I think ARHA Board and I think I'm Lanelefgren on UKC and ESPO Board and Lanelefgren on Southerns Rabbit Dawg and Lefgrenlane on Liam's Board in the UK and , I get them all screwed up. So I just keep punching keys until something happens. LOL 
I will try to find a pic of one with shoulder marked and post here. Might take awhile, so hold be patient.
Also about the white. In genetics terms white is not a color. It is just the absence of color, thus you will not see colors listed as wh/tn/blk etc. White itself is neither Dominat or Recessive, it is what we see when there is no color. There are 4 PRIMARY colors in all mammals (Black, Chocolate, Blue, Lilac). White is the absence of color and Yellow is a secondary color. Yellow comes in a whole range of shades (especially on beagles). It can be a very deep red or rust , to an extremely light almost undetectable cream, with tan, lemon, red whatever you want to call it somplace in between. There are just about a many terms in use for genetically yellow/wh beagles as ther are people to describe them. One person says a lemon has to have a black nose, another will tell you it has to be have a slate nose indicating that the hound is probably double recessive for the dilution. Another thing that confuses many is one person's Tan/Wh is another's Red/Wh, or Yellow/white or whatever. In truth all we have to remember is that a yellow(regardless of shade)/white beagle is a beagle that does not have a primary color exhibited. NO blanket, no PRIMARY colors. Let me repeat. All Tan/wh, red/wh, lemon/wh,yellwo/wh,cream/wh,rust/white, whatever you want ot describe them as are double recessive for the EXTENSION gene or "ee" which supresses, removes, does not allow to be extended the PRIMARY color.
Now I could confuse this with some info about how yellow works in some other situations or breeds but since we are talking about beagles we will just stick to what we get when the hound has the "ee" double recessive that removes or suppresses the PRIMARY (Black, Chocolate(liver, brown), Blue, or Lilac) from the coat.
I will try to find a pic of one with shoulder marked and post here. Might take awhile, so hold be patient. Also about the white. In genetics terms white is not a color. It is just the absence of color, thus you will not see colors listed as wh/tn/blk etc. White itself is neither Dominat or Recessive, it is what we see when there is no color. There are 4 PRIMARY colors in all mammals (Black, Chocolate, Blue, Lilac). White is the absence of color and Yellow is a secondary color. Yellow comes in a whole range of shades (especially on beagles). It can be a very deep red or rust , to an extremely light almost undetectable cream, with tan, lemon, red whatever you want to call it somplace in between. There are just about a many terms in use for genetically yellow/wh beagles as ther are people to describe them. One person says a lemon has to have a black nose, another will tell you it has to be have a slate nose indicating that the hound is probably double recessive for the dilution. Another thing that confuses many is one person's Tan/Wh is another's Red/Wh, or Yellow/white or whatever. In truth all we have to remember is that a yellow(regardless of shade)/white beagle is a beagle that does not have a primary color exhibited. NO blanket, no PRIMARY colors. Let me repeat. All Tan/wh, red/wh, lemon/wh,yellwo/wh,cream/wh,rust/white, whatever you want ot describe them as are double recessive for the EXTENSION gene or "ee" which supresses, removes, does not allow to be extended the PRIMARY color.
Now I could confuse this with some info about how yellow works in some other situations or breeds but since we are talking about beagles we will just stick to what we get when the hound has the "ee" double recessive that removes or suppresses the PRIMARY (Black, Chocolate(liver, brown), Blue, or Lilac) from the coat.