Hunt Versus Search

houndsound · Post by **houndsound** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:22 am

i've never understood calling hunt, jump, search all different things. They all (to me) mean going out and finding rabbits to chase. I mean if you say a dog has good search, but isn't a good jump dog?????? What is it searching for????

And I think a good jump dog may do it by methodically grubbing in every brush pile or by running around finding a hot track, either way if they jump lots of rabbits, it's a dog with good hunt in my opinion. Which I understand is just my opinion and I realize there is no "standard" for defining different terms, we all define them a little differently.

I at one time asked on this board what line of dogs have good hunt, someone asked if I meant good hunt or good search? That makes no sense to me. Really what is one without the other. I think to often we try to over complicate things. If I say I'm looking for a dog with good hunt, or good search, I would hope anyone would assume I want a dog that is going to jump rabbits.

Just my opinion.

DK

Tim H · Post by **Tim H** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:35 am

I don't want my dog to "hunt" or "search", I want them to FIND rabbits. Now let's talk about the differance between "jump" and "find".

Chris Spall · Post by **Chris Spall** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:20 am

houndsound, I agree with you that there's no standard for terms used ie...hunt or search. The dog that has good search but doesn't jump a lot of rabbits is still searching for rabbits. Here where I live, a dog like that won't jump you many rabbits but I always keep a couple around for when i go run hare because they are usually the ones to strike first.

"do it by methodically grubbing in every brush pile ( or ) by running around finding a hot track" I put the parenthesis around the or to show you that you described two differnt ways of finding a rabbit. I would describe the first as hunt and the second as search. If you advertised a dog with good hunt and I came to look at it just to find it running around trying to find a hot track....I would be disappointed. To you and probably many others they are one in the same, but to me and many others they are very much different.

Again, I am not talking about great jump dogs. They are in a class of thier own. I'm talking about the average dog in your kennel.

Skip · Post by **Skip** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:44 am

The best jump dogs I have seen could lift there head up to "wind" a rabbit. They would know which thickets and brush piles to spend extra time on because they already knew a rabbit was in there.

beaglebill · Post by **beaglebill** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:29 pm

If i was to tell my wife i was going searchin she would think i had finally flipped. Howver she would get it if i said im goin huntin. Just kiddin...Ill give it a try ..We had one spot that was a 300 acre corn field with sink holes scattered through out. Some dogs would go straight from sinkhole to sinkhole while some would search out in the cut corn. I personally like the ones that realized the rabbits will most of the time be in the sinkholes. It seems sometime like one is looking to jump the other for tracks. With fewer rabbits in my area a dog with a lot of hunt (jump dog) is a necessity.

Jamie Rice · Post by **Jamie Rice** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:47 pm

I guess I've always felt that a dog is searching for it's game before it jumps it. And on the flip side, it's hunting for it while game is up.

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:43 pm

A dog that SEARCHES, HUNTS (I don't know a difference and never heard the word search before in reference to dogs) for and follows a track to a rabbit here opening or not is usless and disruptive and will be gone quick.

Dogs here need to LOOK, yes LOOK, meaning using nose and eyes (is this another word used locally here for search and hunt) for a physical rabbit as following tracks will usually lead to a body of water and then where did the track or which way did the rabbit go? While a dog is following a feed track, hopefully with its mouth shut, another dog will always jump a rabbit and once again its just out there saying "Me To"!

One thing I've enjoyed about these boards is what a different type of dogs folks like and need in their specific areas.

houndsound · Post by **houndsound** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:03 pm

Chris Spall,
I understand what you're saying also, but if I advertised a dog with either good hunt or search, you bought it and it didn't ever jump many rabbits, I'm sure you'd be dissapointed either way, if I said it was a good jump dog, or a dog with great search, or a dog with tons of hunt, either way you'd be expecting it to go out and get rabbits up.

Also Chris, you mentioned average dogs in my kennels. Sir, there are no average dogs in my kennel. They are way below average, lol. Someday I hope to own an average hound! Talk to you later.

dk

Chris Spall · Post by **Chris Spall** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:29 pm

Houndsound

If you find an average hound can I rent it from you from time to time, I myself would like to step up in the world too lol. Either way, I think this could be one of the better dissussions this board has had yet.

Chuck Terry · Post by **Chuck Terry** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:59 pm

I would rather have a "busy" dog than a "lazy" one. But I agree some can be "busy" without being very productive. I would rather have a dog that "winds" than one that relies only on ground scent. Still, the true "jump dog" does not hunt bird-dog style. It knows where to look and does not waste time in unlikely spots. It uses all of its senses and instincts as previous posts have suggested. Many of them are not fast in their search nor do they cover a lot of ground. In fact, to those unfamiliar with them, they could appear a little on the lazy side. However, these are the beagles that consistently come up with a rabbit close to where they are cast - even when the rabbits are bedded and conditions are tough! In the end, their success is what counts! Unfortunately, they often are not the best beagles at running the track and seem to have a tendancy not to harken to a pack or even to leave the pack and go get another rabbit for themselves. Still, every pack needs one on the days when conditions are tough!

Hunt6 · Post by **Hunt6** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:07 pm

Hunt and search,that would be the same where I come from :-) I will not feed a dog that cannot go into the thick and nasty briar beds on the farm here.Or in some fields that are 30 ac. or so and loaded with rose hedge and briars head high up the road and jump and circle a rabbit alone.Period.

Now they do not have to bust - run thru brush piles or leap tall buildings in a single bound.But they must stay busy until they jump and circle one in the middle of the day in the nasty stuff.I think every dog in a pack should be able to get er done alone and still function well in a pack.
Hunt6 David P.

mud · Post by **mud** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:17 pm

Great discussion guys.Very productive.I have owned dogs for 30 years.Only had 2 outstanding jump dogs in all those years.I have owned plenty of decent ones and my share of sorry ones.My friends and I call dogs that that move in and out looking for a track travelers or dogs with stir.A true jump dog for me is what I call a squat down hunter.A dog that culls nothing.One that will enter a thicket and hunt every inch leaves nothing uncovered.In tough conditions these type hounds will hunt and jump rabbits behind dogs that go in and out looking for a rabbit.Like most of us I have had dogs that hunt them selves to death and never produce.But to me the true jump dog will jump their share with anyones dogs.The best I ever owned jumped 55 out of 65 rabbits jumped on 8 hunting trips at the start of season one year.I hunted with several friends who had good dogs.Never had another one like her.Spent plenty of money and time looking and raising pups.I just gave up and settled for less.

MrJ · Post by **MrJ** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:00 am

I think definition of good jump dogs depend on personal likes and what you've seen. I have a buddy who when he goes into the woods can point at a piece of brush and the dogs go in it but I can hunt behind him and jump rabbits he misses as his dogs seem to have little excitement or energy in or out of the brush. I have two good jump dogs. Ones the best overall dog I have and shes what I think of as a smart dog. She looks for a rabbit well but winds thick cover before making a decision to go in. Another dog I have turns every brush pile she sees upside down and all you hear is breaking, cackling,snorting and sniffing. 90% of the time these two dogs jump the rabbit rather than other members of my pack. Which dog is the better jump dog? If you look at numbers their proably neck in neck. Does the smart jump sometimes steal a jump from the other dog. Yes she knows when to jump in with Red from Reds body language but Red will do the same. In my opinion it comes down to preference and everyone that hunts with me says Reds the better jump dog though Sadie the other dog jumps just as many and is the pack leader. Do I think Sadie should be penalized for being smarter than Red? No. Which one is more exciting to watch and impresses you more? Well most people would say Red. With me it comes down to who's producing the most rabbits and like I said both are tit for tat in that department so what I have come to the condlusion of is both have different ways of getting the job done and both are succesful in jumping rabbits so I have two very good jump dogs. I have a two pronged attack every day I hunt. If the rabbits are in thick cover Red shines. If the rabbit are sitting around cover, next to a tree or whatever Sadie shines. Personally I feel lucky not to have tow carbon copy jump dogs.

Bobby Jenkins

NorWester · Post by **NorWester** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:49 am

A dog that searches hard doesnt necessarily hunt hard. For instance to my mind there is a big difference between the hound that searches every square inch of bush within 30 yards of you, and a dog that is out hunting, going as far and as deep as possible to get a bunny jumped. If there is nothing in the immediate area, then he or she is gonna go LONG till they find one and never ends up back at your feet looking as if they are saying, lets "search" elsewhere, nothing in that thicket or briar or whatever. Going as far and as deep as needed to get one jumped....NOW THAT'S HUNT. A dog working in an area relatively close to you...is searching.

gbowers · Post by **gbowers** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:48 am

This hunt,search is a great subject. I have tried to describe to friends that hunt with me who think I have great jump dogs.I use the word 'finders' in place of search.I have 2 females that are in every bush and under every thicket that can push a rabbit out of the thick stuff because that's where most of the rabbits are so when they go in these areas the percentage is higher of rousting one out.Then i have a male that knows what stuff to go in to get one out,but he will hit the thickest stuff out there with no hesitation and when he goes in just be patient because somethings in there 80% of the time especially if he goes in and out looking around.Then I have 2 males what I term as finders(search)that are not brushbusters but gingerly go thru the brush but staying busy hunting the area hard not waiting for someone else to jump a rabbit.I call them winders also cause sometime I'll watch them stick their heads in the thicket and do this little foot dance start pace around the thicket then bust in and when we see that the rabbits about to come out.Now I can take these 2 out by themselves now I won't get great brushbusting but they will hit the thicket and they will jump rabbits.So i call them finders because they'll search the area good but the brush is not their first option.