discrimination

New York Hillbilly · Post by **New York Hillbilly** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:13 pm

That even gave me a belly ache!!!

NYH

bunnyjumper · Post by **bunnyjumper** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:04 am

Darn,should of deleted that one!!!!!!

Dave H · Post by **Dave H** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:00 pm

Ya!! I posted prior to even bringing the dog out, only knew that she was EXTREMELY man shy, definately should have waited until I saw for myself what the bitch could do (which turned out to be NOTHING)!!! At that time I thought it was pretty nice until that dog did nothing but lay under jack pines and I asked Sean to either just give me the paperwork or my $$ back the dog can't run alone and that was exactly what I needed a dog that I could hunt solo mean while I didn't own the dog and it was shy and couldn't run an elephent alone. I wrote that because I thought I was getting a dog I could hunt, instead I got a brood bitch that has had like 3 or so litters and can't run or hunt alone. Enough said about Sean.
Now John, who got a story that I gave back 2 worthless dogs that only can run in a pack that another dog jumps up the game from Sean, than decided to come out and tell me he decided to keep her, yet he had to chop me down to the bone and make me feel like even though I fought like hell just to walk again and now can go through the woods and do what I thought I would never do again (the sport I love beagleing). He hurt me with his holyer than thou attitude and made me feel unwelcome and that I dont belong. Well this is a crock and I am fed up with it !!! I got big bad boy little Sean making threats to my wife and family than telling her I know your exact address and things could happen. I went to a lawyer and they both will be served and any time. Sean wants to go toe to toe come get some even thought I am disabled I have gone through better men than you just to get to a fight!!!! Bev, close this thread before some one gets there AKC registration right revoked, mainly Mr. Bickford and Mr. Woodstock crappy himself. I have had enough and am not going to take threats any more! Take some advice when you advertise a dog, dont lie tell exactly that it is sold for a pet only.

Jaz · Post by **Jaz** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:15 pm

I am Dave's wife. I just wanted to add that half of the people on this board, for this thread are being big p_ssy's on this topic. If you check Swing's site you'll see that a lot of the people posting negitive stuff on this board and are posting the exact opposite on Swing's board. Do all Beagler's talk out of both sides of their mouths? I do believe that there are good, if not great Beagler's out there, for we have finally found a few, but as for the rest I am begining to see that some here are spineless. I guess we will just keep working with our pup's and when they are ready, we will see some of you at the trails and you will be the ones with your tails between you legs. Seriously only post what you truely believe, there should be no back stabbing if all of you are actually out to better the breed, not just try to screw people over. That was not meant for either Sean or John but for all of the people that I have read post one thing on a board and then go to another and post the exact opposite. As true Beagler's everyone SHOULD be working together and trying to help one another to better the breed and the sport, I've seen many post it, now I'd like to see them actually do it.
Jaz

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:55 am

Sounds like you are hard to satisfy.Next time I get burned I hope my wife dont get on the Internet making me look like a big

steve3662 · Post by **steve3662** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:13 am

i am new to this board and all i see on this topic is all you people bashing this guy he is right he was done wrong if this guy wouldnt sell him a beagle because he is disabled we dont know both sides of the story but from what i have seen he was done wrong yea he posted a topic on how good the first guy was but how many of us have bought something off of ebay and as soon as we get it post a feedback of positive before we even really try it out i know i have if that is the reason that he was not sold a dog then that breeder needs to be delt with accordingly because i could probably call the guy tommorrow and he sell me the dog and condoning that type of behavior even a hint of it is obserd and is not for the betterment of beagling i have seen simular things on different boards and i pretty much here suck it up and drive on no that is not the answer that is why these people still do it because people think that they have learned thier lesson well its about time these terrible breeders and busines men learn thier lesson not us yes i said business men because that is half of breeding and to here all this stuff bashing this man when noone knows the whole story just guessing at what happened well i heard this mans side of the story and i am pretty sure if these breeders are into beagling that much they have access to this site or someone they know does and have seen this post and replied nothing about this why is that a similar one is on another board the guy called and told the breeder about the post breeder never replied must be true but doing nothing about these type of people hurts us all that is just my 2 cents

HatterasBob · Post by **HatterasBob** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:20 am

Dave H and Jaz,
You probably got shafted and the individuals may have been less then stand up guys, but You need to let this go. You have had your say and all it is going to do is get uglier. I believe you want to be in this sport a long time and I don't believe you would want to be remembered by this thread, do you? Maybe the third guy decided not to sell because he didn't want to end up like the other 2 and didn't have the guts to say that, instead his excuse struck a nerve. You must remember, it will take a brave guy to do business with you until the dust settles. Just food for though!

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:36 am

Bob, Those are my thoughts exactly. Nothing against this man and his wife, but I would be afraid to sell them anything. Dogs that suit me may not suit you. Sounds like the 1st guy tried at first, then got mad.That is no reason for a law suit.I think the last guy knew better than even bother selling a dog to these people.

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:14 am

If I tried dealing two pups to someone, and they weren't satisfied, I think I'd tell them the same thing - "I haven't got anything for you."

Legally, discrimination can take place in the workplace, selling homes, etc. But I think a dog seller can "discriminate" as much as he wants. I don't think there's anything illegal about refusing to sell a dog to someone or picking out who you want to buy the dog. If he doesn't want to sell you a dog because of disability, race, sexual orientation, income level, etc, he can do it. Similarly, the tens of thousands of beagle breeders out there can't sue you for discrimination just because you didn't buy from them for some particular reason.

bunnyjumper · Post by **bunnyjumper** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:14 pm

When I first read your post I could understand that you felt like you were mistreated. You were going to let this misunderstanding drive you from the sport you say you love. I posted a reply like others, advising you to not give up because of this misfortune. Now, because not everyone has given you the comfort that you and your wife would like to hear, we are a bunch of p-ssy's. It would be hard to pass judgement on anyone from a thread on this board. There is just no way to really know the whole story. From what you have said, the man sold you a dog that did not work out, he then took that one back and gave you another. That one did not work out either, so I'm assuming he gave you your money back. So, other than your time, you are really out nothing. As far as the last gentleman, he proubably just did not want to get messed up in this whole ordeal. I do agree that his justification for not selling you the dog because of your disability was not a good way to conduct a business deal. I would have to believe that there were underling reasons for his decision. You can do what you want, but I think by the time you get done messing around getting lawyers involved, you will find out its going to cost you more than the whole thing is worth. I don't know if your reason for posting here was for advice or for comfort, you should be good enough to accept both. I hope all works out for both parties involved. Life is too short, theres plenty of other beagles out there for you to enjoy!!!

Steve C. · Post by **Steve C.** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:33 pm

I should probably steer clear of this topic but I'd like to just point out that selling dogs is a very sticky business. Too many variables involved to make everyone happy all the time. Having said that, most dog sellers will make at least one attempt to make things right but you can't please all the people all the time. There are always two sides to every story and we've heard only one. I don't know Mr. Bickford but I've known Mr. Otruba for quite a few years. While he can be very direct, even blunt; I've always found him to be a man of integrity and a beagler I've looked up to for sticking to his guns in beagle matters. That's not to say he was right in what he told you, but I would certainly want to hear his side before I thought differently of him. No matter who is at fault, we have all made mistakes and if you truly enjoy these dogs and the sport, my recommendation is to move on. Three quarters of the hounds I've ever had have failed to meet my expectations and I think you'll find many others with similar experiences. There is a lot of disappointment associated with this sport, but the rewards last a lifetime.

Jaz · Post by **Jaz** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:47 pm

Everyone-
We were not trying to gain anyone's sympathy or support for all to dislike these 2 men. Sean did follow through with his promise and returned our money. However just so the point is clear, HE brought up bringing lawyers into this matter, which should have been done and over with when the dog and money was returned. He also e-mailed me letting me know that our exact address was left on some paperwork that we returned to him when exchanging the last dog and he now knows our exact location. I don't know if that was meant to be a threat or what the point of it was, other than it was uncalled for. ??? As for John, myself nor my husband has ever met him and had only heard good things about him. He however, could have just stated that he did not believe that his hound was what we were looking for and left it at that. (Though prior to that point he was the one who picked the hound out of his "stock" that best met what we were looking for.) Point being there was no need in stating the reasoning behind his changed decision was due to my husbands diability or the fact that we have pups already. Those facts have nothing to do with selling the hound. If anyone tells a breeder what they are looking for in a hound and the breeder was to be totally honest about the hound, both qualities and faults, you would know what you are getting, there would be no need in being unsatisfied or having things like this happen. Big deal if a hound has faults, I doubt there is a single hound out there that doesn't have at least one, if people could learn to be honest instead of just trying to make a buck, this would be a betterment in breeding. Maybe John did know his hound wasn't what we were looking for, and did do us a favor by not selling it to us but he should have simply stated that. Anyway we are finished with this topic. I apologize for offending any of you in my previous post, I am just sick of this whole situation.
Steve- Thank you!!! You actaually took the time to think about what you read and understood our point. Again thank you!!!
Bob- Thank you!!! For your advice and understanding. We will be talking with you soon!
Boomer- I have no idea what to say to you! I cannot believe that you are seriouly justifying discrimination of any kind!!! That is why this world is the way it is, people allow and actually incourage discrimination! There should be no room for that anywhere or for any reason what-so-ever! I just really cannot believe that anyone would even think that it is wrong to discriminate "publicly" and okay to do "privately". That doesn't even make any sense!
Thank all of you for your posts, both good and bad. Now it is DONE and OVER with so EVERYONE can let it go!!!
Thank again to everyone.
Jaz