ARHA Hunting and Handling rule

[Rowco Beagle Kennels]

I have read this subject with a lot of interest and thought seriously about what is being discussed. I am not a judge and no longer a handler due to physical limitations. As a younger man I judged and handled in other formats about as many hours as anyone on here. I have been hesitant to say anything because I do not believe you can have a perfect format with a perfect set of rules. One thing, however, does bother me. Over the years those who have had questions, suggested changes, or felt certain outcomes were just wrong, were often assumed to be a "sore loser." I have learned in life that any activity that refuses to change or adapt to different conditions and times is doomed. So I will be as honest as I know how to be. Hunting and handling decisions are usually not understood because no explanations are given. Most of the time no one other than the judge has any idea why he chose a particular hound. Once I asked a judge why a dog that hunted the entire hour was not chosen over a dog that laid under a truck for most of the cast. I was told that the hound that hunted until he was called at the end of the cast had wallowed on the ground near the end of the hunt so he was not a good hunting hound. What? I think I have known for a long time that many dogs do that coming out of briars where they have been "hunting." I am not a sore loser. I have lost when I thought I had won and I have won when I was pretty sure I had lost. I have also seen some mighty questionable calls on the hunting and handling deal. Someone on here said there is a lot of luck involved anyway. Totally agree! Just have often wondered why some guys seem to have all the luck. Anyway, I think we need to keep an open mind when people have questions or concerns. Thanks for listening to the ramblings of an old man. Bobby

[BB Beagles]

I've seen dogs that should NOT have won cast by H&H
I've seen dogs that should have been chosen win their cast by H&H
I've seen a cast go out at 7 am run a spot, not jump a rabbit
I've seen a cast go run same spot at 9 am and have scores in the 100's

I know some judges who base H&H on how hard the dog hunted in the field and handled itself while working in field
I know some judges who base H&H on how hard dog hunted in field and how well it listen to handler

Been to a lot of hunts, that didn't have that many hounds, but hunt lasted till dark due to lack of judges
So if you stayed out on cast till you had 20 min of running, you might have a hour cast last 2-3 hrs?
A regular club hunt could easily be turned into a two day event.

I myself do not like when it comes down to H&H, but I do not see adding 20 min of rabbit running would be a fix.
To me that would aggravate the process.
If anything I would like see it changed to just hunting. That's what hounds suppose do anyway, hunt for a rabbit.

[rabbitearl]

I think both are very imported in a dog.I had a trial one time and it came down to two dogs.I watch these dogs run for a good hr and both were as good as the other one running the rabbit. It came to along check and then somebody seen the rabbit cross the path.I told both guy to come and call your dogs on the rabbit.One dog came and the other would not..in rabbit hunting this is very imported on calling a dog to a rabbit. I call the dog that came to the rabbit to win. The other guy agree and said.he is hard headed. But I could not call it if there want a rabbit run.

[BB Beagles]

Handling is a very important aspect in what I want my beagles to do, but just like rabbit earl said that's what that judge made the call on. Apparently neither dog ran the track. If they did, they should have scored from first breakdown. In this case that judged based his call off his own perspective. Again! Not saying handling is not important, but I'd rather have dogs who hunt hard to find a rabbit, than have one where handles well to place him on a rabbit. Really you want the best of both, but if it come down to it I was choose hunt over handling. Jmo. Basically it's just Luck of the Hour. But ain't it fun.

[rabbitatfarm]

One way that scoring the open dogs might be more fair would be to select the 10 dogs with the highest score from all the casts--there are ten places--and let them run again. You would have to have two casts of five and then run those two winners for first and second. A method to deal with any ties would need to be found, maybe similar to what we have now. Somebody still might not be happy, but on paper it would look more fair. On the other hand, not all running spots are equal. At the last trial our cast had a total of 325 points. The other cast had only 75. Different areas, different rabbits. On a tough day a score of 50 in one cast might be the equivalent of 120 in another cast. Sure it's tough when one cast wins with a strike--all the other dogs have 0--and your dog score 75 points and places third in his cast. He would place lower in the hunt placement than the dogs with no score. Been there; so have others. But right now, that's the rule. Live with it or stay home.

[Casey Harner]

I rather be beaten by this rule than being beat by a ghost tracker for 60 minutes. If I'm out gun hunting with my dogs and they go all through the woods barking at nothing I'm gonna want to shoot them. If my dogs hunt hard all day, and get in the briars, but don't jump a rabbit and never bark I'm happy with them. I mean I don't want to get in position to shoot a rabbit and nothing comes by. I look at gun hunting like I look at trials. Rabbit dogs is what it's all about.

[island ridge hounds]

i can remember being at the little world one year in Indiana. apparently we had no rabbits but for over forty minutes we had five dogs beating the briars and the bushes and not a sound was made from a hound. that was all most as impressive as if they had ran non-stop for the same amount of time. we did move to another location and had a strike with only minutes left in the hunt and they ran the time out without a lose. if you judge's are truly watching the hounds you will get a hound with alot of hunt. the handle is usually there to break the hunt tie. i've seen alot of dogs that had great hunt but wouldn't handle if there handlers life depended on it. i like the rule in the case of no rabbits.

[The Asphalt Man]

I agree with barnold1 but only if the dogs have more 0 points.

[wildwinds beagles]

i dont ever see that working. i have judged and seen casts that couldnt run a rabbit 20 minutes in a month let alone in a cast. if you went to a trial and your cast had good running in an hour would you want to sit at the club house all day because another cast couldnt run a rabbit for 20 minutes? I understand what your are saying but it will only work to a certain degree. i have ran trials in a blizzard they ran but not for 20 minutes straight. There are all kinds of factors you have to figure in.

Then why bring any of those hounds back? If that the case they shouldn't be worthy of a win. Jmo and question.