Every now and then something annoys me and i have to post on here to vent. This beagle store breeder comparison thing is completely out of line and is so far off i can't even imagine what posessed someone to do such a thing. Trust me what i call a back yard breeder is a plus. He is the guy who has one or two dogs and raises a litter of pups every couple of years and knows what he has. The so called reputable breeder they list is the same guy who always has pups or dogs for sale with the excuse that they are cutting back due to not having time to do them justice. I seed no need in grouping the backyard breeder with the puppy mill. I assure you they are not the same. What is this all about and whos criteria is it that puts the breeders into certain categories.
Brian
beaglestore.com breeder comparison
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
I got an email from Chris that is starting this website about this very thing...I occasionally breed and when I do, it is in my backyard...I would also like to see this comparison changed to reflect the way most of the beagles I know about are bred...I am certainly not a puppy mill and resent the idea that I am lumped in with them. But, since I don't usually have pups to sell, it really won't affect me that much I guess...Tony
Tony,
The way i see it if you are not in this group then you will be viewed a puppymill. There are alot of guys out there who have a couple good dogs and are constantly breeding dogs to sell pups you can check this board and see what i am talking about. Then there is the guy who breeds a dog to add a couple pups to his pack and sells the left overs and they put him in the same category as the puppy mill. Go figure. I guess i then must buy most of my dogs from puppy mills since they come from back yard breeders.
Who knows what this is all about.
The way i see it if you are not in this group then you will be viewed a puppymill. There are alot of guys out there who have a couple good dogs and are constantly breeding dogs to sell pups you can check this board and see what i am talking about. Then there is the guy who breeds a dog to add a couple pups to his pack and sells the left overs and they put him in the same category as the puppy mill. Go figure. I guess i then must buy most of my dogs from puppy mills since they come from back yard breeders.
Who knows what this is all about.
You have hit on a subject that I was leery of when this idea was first talked about on another beagleboard...The idea that if you aren't in this "club" of breeders, then you are a puppymill, or at least a less than respectable breeder. It seems to be a buddy club of breeders, and there are no checks or balances to keep someone that breeds now from becoming a true puppy mill when they figure that they can get more customers for their pups. I have never bought a beagle or any dog for that matter from a puppymill or a pet store...But, I have bought some hounds from certain breeders that could be considered a puppymill by the comparison to backyard breeders...Tony
I have seen the whole thing from the begining and and feel the same as vabeagler. I'm not the only one that thinks it a buddy club,to drive up prices. But it could be a good thing if handled right.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. "Benjamin Franklin" 1759
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. "Benjamin Franklin" 1759
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YGD ( BUNNY BUSTER)
THE ONLY TIME I BREED IS IF " I " WANT TO ADD A COUPLE PUPS TO MY PACK. I SAW ONE GUY WANTING AN OFFER ON WHAT LOOKED LIKE WELL BRED PUPS BECAUSE HE HAD 2 OR 3 MORE BITCHES BRED & NEEDED THE ROOM. I DON'T KEEP SO MANY I NEED MORE ROOM & DON'T KEEP ANY I DON'T HAVE TIME TO RUN SO I DON'T HAVE ANY KENNEL REDUCTIONS JUST AT RABBIT SEASON. 
I ALSO PERFER THE BACK YARD BEAGLER. MY 2 CENTS WORTH.
BUNNYBUSTER
I ALSO PERFER THE BACK YARD BEAGLER. MY 2 CENTS WORTH.BUNNYBUSTER
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Bob Graves
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:30 pm
- Location: Oriskany, NY
I voiced my concerns from the get-go, and still say that some will use the idea for monetary gain over improving the breed. 
All in all it won't affect me much, I'm gonna get my hounds from people that put more emphasis on how they breed, over how much they make on pups!
To all you "good" ole "backyard breeders"...... Keep up the good work!
All in all it won't affect me much, I'm gonna get my hounds from people that put more emphasis on how they breed, over how much they make on pups!To all you "good" ole "backyard breeders"...... Keep up the good work!
Last edited by Bob Graves on Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
Bob,
Ditto! How much money do you suppose I have made off of my beagles?
To each his own I guess but I do take exception to the comparisons made between breeders/puppy mills....and "responsible breeders".
NYH
Ditto! How much money do you suppose I have made off of my beagles?
To each his own I guess but I do take exception to the comparisons made between breeders/puppy mills....and "responsible breeders".NYH
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
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pztrailman
- Posts: 456
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:37 am
- Location: Ravenna, Ohio
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Bob Graves
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:30 pm
- Location: Oriskany, NY
NYH,
If I had to guess I'd say you have made $3.47 per pup before taxes..... and then NY State said you made too much and made you pay $35.20 per pup! How'd I do?
I think the comparisons of responsible breeders to puppy mills etc. are correct, but the term "Backyard Breeder" has been deemed a bad thing and a lot of guys are taking it quite literally. A quality puppy can and does come from many a backyard, no doubt about it. On the flip side, a state of the art breeding facility doesn't amount to a hill of beans if the knowledge to make the right choices isn't there!
Example: And Hillbilly, I hope you don't mind me using you for this one. You can yell at me later if you see fit. NYHillbilly has bred some beautiful hounds in his backyard (more of a back field really) that most anybody would be proud to own! Could NYHillbilly get more for his pups? Probably, if he felt the need to. But I have met Hillbilly and know his intentions are not to make money off pups, but to put quality pups on the ground that will make most anybody that owns them happy. Should/Could Hillbilly be on the responsible breeder list? I think he could be. Is Hillbilly a "Backyard Breeder"? In the literal sense, Yes, he breeds in the Backyard. In reality, he breeds quality in his backyard. JMHO
If I had to guess I'd say you have made $3.47 per pup before taxes..... and then NY State said you made too much and made you pay $35.20 per pup!
How'd I do? I think the comparisons of responsible breeders to puppy mills etc. are correct, but the term "Backyard Breeder" has been deemed a bad thing and a lot of guys are taking it quite literally. A quality puppy can and does come from many a backyard, no doubt about it. On the flip side, a state of the art breeding facility doesn't amount to a hill of beans if the knowledge to make the right choices isn't there!
Example: And Hillbilly, I hope you don't mind me using you for this one. You can yell at me later if you see fit.
NYHillbilly has bred some beautiful hounds in his backyard (more of a back field really) that most anybody would be proud to own! Could NYHillbilly get more for his pups? Probably, if he felt the need to. But I have met Hillbilly and know his intentions are not to make money off pups, but to put quality pups on the ground that will make most anybody that owns them happy. Should/Could Hillbilly be on the responsible breeder list? I think he could be. Is Hillbilly a "Backyard Breeder"? In the literal sense, Yes, he breeds in the Backyard. In reality, he breeds quality in his backyard. JMHO-
New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
Bob,
Judging from your math skills and their accuracyI would do well to hire you as my accountant. Things are what they are.....I am a lousy business man when it comes to hounds because to me it is never business...it's pleasure. I guess I am a backyard breeder because that is where it takes place in a kennel that more closely resembles an Adirondack cabin. I try to only breed for need, both mine and for my friends and if they are average ( in my opinion) they are not bred EVER here because I would rather buy an excellent prospect from someone else than breed so -so puppies. Thankfully I have not had to do this for many years! I have one bitch here (5 years now) that only needs a few points to champion out in ARHA LP and not only will she not be bred but I have not even changed her papers into my name so it cannot happen. Thank you for your kind words on my hounds and I know you have run enough and seen enough to know what you are talking about. I have been stung like many others out there and would go out of my way everytime to not to be seen in that light. Could I get on some list....probably....but why bother? I know what I have and those who know me know too and I am always happy to share the gift. I have sold some over the years but have given many more away than I have ever sold and that includes good started hounds which you can attest to. This is America and we are free to do as we please if legal, that includes losing money on GOOD hounds as well as making money on bad ones. Both of these practices occurr as you well know! Oh yeah.....gave another one away today (pup) to my cousins mother in law....her dog died and she wanted a pup. BAD BAD Hillbilly Businessman!
NYH
Judging from your math skills and their accuracyI would do well to hire you as my accountant. Things are what they are.....I am a lousy business man when it comes to hounds because to me it is never business...it's pleasure. I guess I am a backyard breeder because that is where it takes place in a kennel that more closely resembles an Adirondack cabin. I try to only breed for need, both mine and for my friends and if they are average ( in my opinion) they are not bred EVER here because I would rather buy an excellent prospect from someone else than breed so -so puppies. Thankfully I have not had to do this for many years! I have one bitch here (5 years now) that only needs a few points to champion out in ARHA LP and not only will she not be bred but I have not even changed her papers into my name so it cannot happen. Thank you for your kind words on my hounds and I know you have run enough and seen enough to know what you are talking about. I have been stung like many others out there and would go out of my way everytime to not to be seen in that light. Could I get on some list....probably....but why bother? I know what I have and those who know me know too and I am always happy to share the gift. I have sold some over the years but have given many more away than I have ever sold and that includes good started hounds which you can attest to. This is America and we are free to do as we please if legal, that includes losing money on GOOD hounds as well as making money on bad ones. Both of these practices occurr as you well know! Oh yeah.....gave another one away today (pup) to my cousins mother in law....her dog died and she wanted a pup. BAD BAD Hillbilly Businessman!
NYH
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
A backyard breeder is NOT someone who breeds in their backyard. It, by definition, is a person or group that has dozens of dogs, all different breeds, that breed just for the income. They buy the cheapest feed they can, there is little or no personal contact with the animals, there is little or no medical offered to the animals, and they are used only to procreate.
example, a guy in Oxford NY that has over 125 beagles in his "backyard" sells them for $75 each to any one who stops by. He says if his dogs don't hunt by the time they are 6 months he shots them in the head...Good riddins he says. Well how in the world does he get 125 dogs out to run regulary to know which can run and which can't? You can go there every day of the year and he has puppies, every day, can you even imagine. And not just 1 litter but a few at a time. Can you even imagine how hard it would be to keep up with the paper trail on who sired what and when. Now I have hunted all over Central NY and never once have I seen him or his dogs out, not once.
This is a Backyard breeder. If Chris' organization can stop people like this than Kudos to all who have teamed up to do so.
Respectfully yours
Goes
example, a guy in Oxford NY that has over 125 beagles in his "backyard" sells them for $75 each to any one who stops by. He says if his dogs don't hunt by the time they are 6 months he shots them in the head...Good riddins he says. Well how in the world does he get 125 dogs out to run regulary to know which can run and which can't? You can go there every day of the year and he has puppies, every day, can you even imagine. And not just 1 litter but a few at a time. Can you even imagine how hard it would be to keep up with the paper trail on who sired what and when. Now I have hunted all over Central NY and never once have I seen him or his dogs out, not once.
This is a Backyard breeder. If Chris' organization can stop people like this than Kudos to all who have teamed up to do so.
Respectfully yours
Goes
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Bob Graves
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:30 pm
- Location: Oriskany, NY
goes1
VABEAGLER
goes1
S.R. Patch's post pretty much says it all. It's all in how you take it.
Who's definition? I'll be the first to admit that when I hear the term "backyard breeder" I think "Bad", and so do most people, but I don't considder everybody that raises a litter of pups in the backyard a backyard breeder either.A backyard breeder is NOT someone who breeds in their backyard. It, by definition, is a person or group that has dozens of dogs, all different breeds, that breed just for the income.
VABEAGLER
Maybe it does seem that way but I don't see Chris' idea as being a much of an impact on the guy that raises a litter every now and then, or the breeders that have withstood the tests of time. Most people that know what they want will go see the hounds for themselves, not sitting behind a keyboard! I have taken chances with the sight unseen online thing with mixed results. I doubt I will again.The way i see it if you are not in this group then you will be viewed a puppymill.
goes1
goes1a guy in Oxford NY that has over 125 beagles in his "backyard" sells them for $75 each to any one who stops by. He says if his dogs don't hunt by the time they are 6 months etc. etc.
I agree. Time will tell on this I guess, but I have my doubts. Somebody will make out though.This is a Backyard breeder. If Chris' organization can stop people like this than Kudos to all who have teamed up to do so.
S.R. Patch's post pretty much says it all. It's all in how you take it.