DID HAIR HOUNDS MAKE COTTON TAIL DOGS FAST

[dhoundman]

IS THE HAIR HOUND WHAT MAKES THE COTTAN TAIL DOG FASTER IF YES THEN WHAT DID THE COTTAN TAIL DOGS DO FOR HAIR HOUNDS.
WHAT DID COTTAN TAIL DOGS DO BEFORE THE HAIR HOUND AND WHAT DID THE HAIR HOUND DO BEFORE COTTAN TAIL DOGS
AND NOW THAT IT IS ALL MIXEDS UP IS THIS WHAT IS MAKING IT SO HARD TO GET A NICE RUNNING DOG

[Newt]

Hare hounds did not make cottontail dogs faster. Selective breeding by houndsmen who desired either speed or line control is what made them faster or slower..
When the Gundog movement started, back in the mid 70s, it is true that some LPH type hounds like Weir Creek Buzz and Grays Buck were used to cross on cottontail bred dogs to give them more speed and line ability. But as soon as the Gundog movement was recognized by AKC and Trials became popular, many of the Traditional Brace Beaglers switched over to that format. They brought their ideas with them and soon they went back to a more conservative hound.
If you take a pedigree of a Midwest Association dog and trace it back far enough you will probably find LPH type dogs close up in the pedigree, trace it back further and you will find Willclife Bannister and Boogie.
Take a UBGF dogs pedigree and trace it back and you will find Wilcliffe Bannister and Boogie.
The Boogie dogs were the start of the "peanut roller" mentality that took over the Traditional Brace Beagle Trials.
The speed vs line control is dictated by man's likes and desires. In a few generation they can screw up or improve anything, depending on your point of view.

[fulcount]

If the judges at that time were real houndsmen they would have not
tolerated the walky talky type from the beginning ,you can blame this bloodline or
that bloodline all you want to but the fact is, It all goes back to the judging
The boogies were all run on fox in mich is my understanding, you can take the
slowest from a bloodline and keep breeding them and come up with what the
judges were looking at back then It seems the brace people culled the real rabbit dogs and
an kept the culls for trials

John O

[briarhopper]

Jerry, if it is hard for you to find a good running dog then you may be using the wronglines of dogs. I have been there myself and started over fresh. Wether its cottontail bred or hare bred , wichever makes you smile when you are out there. When you stop smiling then a change is needed.

[dhoundman]

THIS IS NOT A PERSONAL PROBLEM FOR ME
THIS A WHAT MOST THE PEOPLE THAT TALK TO ME THAT ARE NOT INTO THE HOLE TROPHIE SEEN. MOST YOU TRIALERS NOW WHAT KIND OF DOG YOU WANT AND THAT IS WHAT YOU GIVE YOUR LAST DIME FOR. BUT AS FOR THE BASIC HUNTER THAT DOES NOT WANT TO SPEND HOURS RUNNING DOGS. HE JUST WANTS TO GO OUT ON THE WEEK END EVERY NOW AND THEN WHEN THE WEATHER IS JUST RIGHT AND HEAR HIS DOGS RUN AND MAYBE EVEN KILL A RABBIT. THEY ARE THE ONCE I AM SPEAKING OF. ME I GOT WHAT I WANT AND THOSE THAT DON'T LIKE IT CAN BUZZ OFF.

BEAGLING WAS A POR MANS SPORT BUT THANKS TO E-COLLARS AND TRACKERS WE HAVE TURN IT INTO A HIGH DOLLAR SPORT. THE THING THAT KEPT PEOPLE IN IT WAS THAT THEY COULD GO SPEND 50 TO 100 DOLLARS FOR A PUP AND GET A DESENT DOG. BUT NOT ANY MORE.THANKS TO A.K.C. COST , SHOCK COLLARS CAUSE SO MEANY RUN DEER NOW , THEN THIER IS TRACKING COLLARS CAUSE THE DOGS DON'T HAVE SENSE ENOUGH TO COME BACK TOWHERE THEY WHERE OUT OUT AT , THANKS TO ALL THAT THOSE DAYS ARE GONE
WHAT HAVE WE DONE TO A SIMPLE SPORT THAT ANY KID COULD ENJOY
HMMMMMMMM MAYBE IT IS PERSOANNELL ANY WAY JUST A THOUGHT FOR A SNOW BOUND OLD MAN THAT CAN NOT GET OUT OF THE HOUSE.

[briarhopper]

I see what you are saying. Although i am not really a trialer , i have only maybe attended 6 or so and usually dont do any good . Alot of those guys go thru more dogs in a trial season than i have in my life. All our trophies are in the freezer . I do run shockers on my dogs but couldt tell ya the last time i had to shock an adult dog. the dogs i own now are cottontail dogs but way back there is some yellow creek,pearson creek,war eagle ace,some gay, some patch. Its way back and watered down but seems that each side of the curve were bred to suit the hunter or trialer in their area or terrain.

[briarhopper]

Also i apologize if my first post was offending in any way. Was not intended to.i kno and respect you and your opinion on hounds. I olso jnow you have some older dogs and know if they did not suit you that you wouldnt have them.I was just saying i ran a certain style dog for many years and after years of goin through dogs and being frustrated i had an appiphany. I needed to switch it up and i did. I have only been running the pack i have for this is the 3rd rabbit season and i am very pleased. I also run all year for i am addicted. I love bringin my kids when they wanna go and my wife has even started goin in the summer months.

[pilotknob]

IS THE HAIR HOUND WHAT MAKES THE COTTAN TAIL DOG FASTER IF YES THEN WHAT DID THE COTTAN TAIL DOGS DO FOR HAIR HOUNDS.
WHAT DID COTTAN TAIL DOGS DO BEFORE THE HAIR HOUND AND WHAT DID THE HAIR HOUND DO BEFORE COTTAN TAIL DOGS
AND NOW THAT IT IS ALL MIXEDS UP IS THIS WHAT IS MAKING IT SO HARD TO GET A NICE RUNNING DOG

Yes..Kept them on the line and in the check area so it could run a cottontail without staying brokedown more than it ran.Registered beagles in the south were almost useless for hunting due to their Brace influence.Hare hounds ran hare(and fox) like they were bred for.There are more choices out there now as far as good registered beagles go than have ever been.It's real easy to get to much foot and compedativeness to run a cottontail efficiently.Run what you like.

[J Martin]

Do you know how to turn all caps off or do you just like making all your posts hard to read?

[Alabama John]

Back in the 40's and 50's, we wanted rabbit dogs to kill rabbits from. Many bred beagles to fiest, fox walkers, small squirrel treeing redbones & black and tans, little thick brush rabbit blueticks, all hounds that were small in size, and dogs of mixed, who knows, heritage if they could jump and run a rabbit back to the gun. Looks didn't matter and never saw one AKC registered. Only brace was AKC beagles, all tricolored, and their trial was judged in 10-20 yards of "running" and today its judging distance is much shorter, like 5-10 feet of brace "running".

When ARHA came along many of those real rabbit dogs if they happened to have long enough ears and how long was an opinion, got registered. To me they were the best rabbit dogs.

Interesting that when the mixed grade dogs became popular and their owners spending money getting them registered, the dogs registered in AKC as beagles in various newly formed AKC formats started to have the same colors and running styles as the mixed grade dogs. Wonder how that happened!!!Lol

We old timers still see a lot of the old time traits distinctive in the various hounds or fiest in rabbit dogs of today, regardless of the registry or not, and not counting the obvious colors differences.

[Lance]

IS THE HAIR HOUND WHAT MAKES THE COTTAN TAIL DOG FASTER IF YES THEN WHAT DID THE COTTAN TAIL DOGS DO FOR HAIR HOUNDS.
WHAT DID COTTAN TAIL DOGS DO BEFORE THE HAIR HOUND AND WHAT DID THE HAIR HOUND DO BEFORE COTTAN TAIL DOGS
AND NOW THAT IT IS ALL MIXEDS UP IS THIS WHAT IS MAKING IT SO HARD TO GET A NICE RUNNING DOG

SOUNDS LIKE YOUR LOOKING IN THE WRONG SPOTS OR THE WRONG LINE OF DOGS!!!!!

WHAT IS YOUR OPINION OF A "NICE RUNNING DOG"?