INCORRECT PEDIGRES

[grosswdg]

Greg did Johnny ever get the paper straight on who was the Sire of his dog.

[grosswdg]

Did they ever find out the real sire of Johnny Turner's dog Elk Mtn Clyde was.

[Swampman]

I believe that DNA is good and as long as AKC does something about it when it is discovered, punishment will help curtail the problem.
One more thing that I believe helps bring the problem to light and may help stop the forgery is the internet.
These boards weren't around 12/15 years ago so anyone could forge papers and odds are, no one would be the wiser.
With the internet/boards, things like this is brought to light much quicker and I would imagine will be tougher to get away with it.

Last year I had a female get accidentally bred. I know my male didn't breed her so I gave the pups away with no papers rather than wrongly registering them.

As someone else posted, "I don't think its the trialers as much as the dog jokeys trying to make money selling beagles knowing they can get more money with a strong field trial pedigree"
Just look in the for sale forums, there are some people constantly selling hounds and puppies.
There is one guy in particular that had nearly every popular line out there for sale not too long ago.

I breed for myself and do sell the extras occasionally but post them with great reluctance fearing they may go to one of these jockeys just trying to make a buck on them or worse, turning them into brood bitches.
I am also very reluctant to use my Stud on other peoples females, the old man would bite me if he knew how many times I have turned females down for him.

It may sound foolish, but I care where they go and how they will be treated.
I have given away champions in the past just because I am a sentimental fool.
I will say though, it is quite gratifying when I do and get some youngster hooked on hounds!

Sorry for getting off topic here, I have actual experience with the forgery issue and really don't know how some people sleep at night.

[grosswdg]

I loned Johnny a female to breed this male to because he was so proud of the way he was turning out.He sent off and got a DNA on this male after breeding this first female.If he hadn't sent off and got a DNA it would have been years down the road before someone would have found out about this.The last i heard AKC didn't do anything to the man that breed his dog and he was a well known breeder. I know mistakes can happen but like you said if you're not sure of what breed a dog don't register the pups.

[littlewoody]

I HAVE A FRIEND OF MINE THAT HAS A NICE YOUNG MALE THAT HAS BEEN BRED TO SEVERAL FEMALES. HE HAD THE DOG PROFILED AND AKC TOLD HIM THAT THE SIRE ON THE PEDIGREE WAS NOT CORRECT. I THOUGHT THIS WAS A THING OF THE PAST. IS THIS STILL A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH BEAGLES. FEEL FREE TO VOICE YOUR THOUGHTS

Special with some patch beagles !

[Osborne's Beagles]

All dogs were grade at one time or another until someone (registry) started to keep records of such. AKC has been around long enough to have a pretty good data base to be able to put a history of a dogs ancestry together from their closed registry meaning they only register dogs that come from AKC registered ancesters. The other registries such as UKC, ARHA and PKC have and still do allow single registration which is basically grade because of not being able to verify one ancestor or the other. I go back far enough in registering coonhounds in UKC to remember single registered hounds had yellow registration papers in lieu of purple. I remember the first beagle that I UKC registered was as foundation stock and if I remember correctly it had yellow papers as well. Minus DNA profiling any registered dog could be grade and in fact has evolved from grade regardless of the registry.

Great statement, I totally agree.

[Beagle Huntsman]

Many people are only about as honest as they have to be. That is why we have police. If you deal with people like that, you get what you deserve. The person you are dealing with is as important as the bloodline, so choose wisely.

For anyone to say pedigrees are of no use, only shows ignorance of how to breed hounds, or any animal. Even we ourselves are products of our pedigrees (we call them Family Trees). Assuming you are dealing with quality people, you can trust the pedigrees to predict what your breeding results might be. When I plan a cross, nothing to me is more important than pedigrees. (Note that I did not say pedigrees are the ONLY thing I consider). After over 30 years breeding the same lines, I know my pedigrees are correct, and I know what to expect when I plan from them.

[rackhntr]

Ive had beagles for so long and have looked for so many hours at pictures and pedigrees that when I see a beagle I can just about tell you how its bred! Lol. But its true! I think my dogs are right!

[Lone Pine Beagles]

I think the DNA testing will help curb fraud.
But years ago they had no way to know otherwise?

There are lines out there, when linebred....that don't even resemble a beagle!
I'm guessing way back 10 generations that a different breed was probably added to the mix?
Intentional or accidental we'll never know.

[BB Beagles]

What was the sires pedigree that was wrong. And what others in past that have been wrong that anybody knows about?
Names and bloodlines?

[NorWester1]

I believe that DNA is good and as long as AKC does something about it when it is discovered, punishment will help curtail the problem.
One more thing that I believe helps bring the problem to light and may help stop the forgery is the internet.
These boards weren't around 12/15 years ago so anyone could forge papers and odds are, no one would be the wiser.
With the internet/boards, things like this is brought to light much quicker and I would imagine will be tougher to get away with it.

Last year I had a female get accidentally bred. I know my male didn't breed her so I gave the pups away with no papers rather than wrongly registering them.

As someone else posted, "I don't think its the trialers as much as the dog jokeys trying to make money selling beagles knowing they can get more money with a strong field trial pedigree"
Just look in the for sale forums, there are some people constantly selling hounds and puppies.
There is one guy in particular that had nearly every popular line out there for sale not too long ago.

I breed for myself and do sell the extras occasionally but post them with great reluctance fearing they may go to one of these jockeys just trying to make a buck on them or worse, turning them into brood bitches.
I am also very reluctant to use my Stud on other peoples females, the old man would bite me if he knew how many times I have turned females down for him.

It may sound foolish, but I care where they go and how they will be treated.
I have given away champions in the past just because I am a sentimental fool.
I will say though, it is quite gratifying when I do and get some youngster hooked on hounds!

Sorry for getting off topic here, I have actual experience with the forgery issue and really don't know how some people sleep at night.

Don't register your dogs anymore. Not trying to sound smart....dead serious. Look at the pluses....you won't waste money on second party pedigrees that aren't correct. No dog jockey will want to buy your hounds. The only ones that will are folks looking for GOOD dogs bred to your standards. You can still just as easily keep pedigrees and the only stamp of approval needed will be your own. Folks that deal with you will trust your word......cause a handshake and trust is all they'll have.
The down side is that you'll have to get old school with the surplus pups and dogs that don't make the grade....wait, maybe thats not a downside
You wont be able to trial I suppose or show.....and you won't have any pedigrees on Carl's site...lolol...'bout the only drawbacks I can think of.

[bodetis]

What was the sires pedigree that was wrong. And what others in past that have been wrong that anybody knows about?
Names and bloodlines?

............................................................................................................................... turbo and ninja hehe

[Newt]

Don't register your dogs anymore. Not trying to sound smart....dead serious. Look at the pluses....you won't waste money on second party pedigrees that aren't correct. No dog jockey will want to buy your hounds. The only ones that will are folks looking for GOOD dogs bred to your standards. You can still just as easily keep pedigrees and the only stamp of approval needed will be your own. Folks that deal with you will trust your word......cause a handshake and trust is all they'll have.
The down side is that you'll have to get old school with the surplus pups and dogs that don't make the grade....wait, maybe thats not a downside
You wont be able to trial I suppose or show.....and you won't have any pedigrees on Carl's site...lolol...'bout the only drawbacks I can think of.

I agree. Also, if you sell a five hundred dollar dog, it will be based on merit not hopes and lies.

[Tsa la gi]

Ah woody,
Here you go again. The dog being talked about was not a patch, I know Johnny very well he knows the guy he bought it from very well. I guess you just have a hang up with Patch. SOOOOOOOOOOO. get off the pot wipe your brain and be nice.
Chuck

[Hippy]

I agree with Warddog At one time they were ALL GRADE DOGS-- every time this discussion comes up I say the same thing --Grade vs Registered of ANY BREED is kinda like arguing with who came 1st "The Chicken or the Egg"

The only thing that is consistent is ----PAPERS do not Run Rabbits Dogs do--- I have seen soooooo many pups that in no way resembled their sirs-grand sires BUT were "Paper" Dogs.

Let the individual dog tell you they are what you like

Good Luck

Jim