A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
Dave Swiger wrote:ill make one more statement and im done.
At a ukc hunt about a year ago Dave mcVay and i were in the winners pack and he made this statement about the sale of the Butkus dog. He never quoted a price, but he said " You paid possible the highest price ever for a rabbit dog" So i can see why you wouldnt want anyone to know how foolish the price. I really dont care what you paid. Next time you are at a hunt and guys break out in laughter, ask if you are the subject of the joke. IM just telling you what is being said behind your back. A fool and his money are soon parted.
Dave
Dave,
I have a news flash for you...I don't go to hunts. You and your buddies can talk and laugh all you want about me and my dogs. I'm pretty sure they could care less as well. I'll keep laughing every time I get a message from one of them trying to breed to him. As for what I paid for Butkus...he was a bargain. Here's a quote for you "even a fool could have made money with that dog". Do you really think that I would have taken him off public stud if I didn't at least break even. Now that is none of your business but you seem very interested. You seem to bash anyone with high dollar dogs. I'm sorry that you have never owned, bought or had an opportunity to own a once in a lifetime hound. Keep going to those hunts and trying to make top hounds and maybe you will be fortunate enough to meet a friend like the McVay's have. You need to let your bitterness and jealousy go because there is one fault that a dog can never overcome....His owner.
Dave, you are insinuating that I was joking. If you remember I followed that statement that I felt he was worth every dime and still wish I had not sold him. Please do not insinuate that I was making fun of Tim or Butkus. If there is a fool to be made here it would be on me for putting a price on such a hound. Dave McVay
Dave, have to tell you that I never thought that you were in any way joking or putting it on ogrady. It was a statement of fact not humor. ogrady seems to think that by buying a great hound, that elevates him to higher plain in the beagle world. I truly couldnt give a rats azz about the dog or Ogrady. take care dave.
This is a discussion about Destiny, she has thrown a few pretty fair hounds. Pups are worth what people are willing to pay, plain and simple.
I said this on the thread about her and Reggies pups< know one forced anyone to pay the price of the pups, they paid it if they wanted to. Market value is as much as people will pay for the potential, I stress potential, they all throw culls. I see them advertised on here about every day. Prove that wrong with any hound on this planet.
I hope fellow starting this post got his information.
I will add I am a friend of Tim Ogrady and speak with him regularly. Butkus was worth every penny paid by Tim, he enjoys him under the gun and I could care less what he paid for him, that is his business. We all value things differently and see things with worth relative to how much we want them. Look at sire of the year results and the record Butkus is there, not bad for a dog off the market, IMO.
I personally would value a top hound to an extreme level and i will PAY for them. Makes my trips to the woods much more enjoyable. I am trying to raise the next top hound, funny how I am always looking to buy the next top hound. Must be screwing that up!! LOL.
Since this post was started about Destiny, I want to set the record straight about the Reggie x Destiny cross. I, Bobby Williams, originally bought Destiny for a price I considered reasonable. It was a private agreement and no where near the advertised price. After purchasing her I sold or traded half interest in her to a 2nd party and we agreed (written contract) to split the pups with me getting the second pick and Terry getting the first pick for breeding fees. I ended up with 1 female and 2 males. My three were not advertised at a high price and initially not advertised at any price. The simple reason for this is that Johnny (my son) and I did not buy Destiny as an investment but as an oppurtunity to get some good pups. If making money was our motive we would quit breeding hounds because we have never made any money - rabbit hunting just happens to be the greatest fun we ever had outside the Lord and our families. The other dogs from the cross belonged to another man and he did what he wanted with them and he can speak for himself. I eventually signed Destiny totally over to him. I am the official co-breeder of this litter. A subsequent cross was made but only one survived. We raised and started out 3 pups and started a couple of the others. Four of them hunted, jumped and ran a cross bred rabbit for 20 minutes until they caught him their first time out in our 20+ acre pen. They were 4 months old. They never looked back and were the most impressive young dogs I ever started until we just started pups off Brankos Ten Mile Andy x our double champion Bleu Girl and I have rabbit hunted over 50 years. And by the way they are not for sale. As they neared a year old it became obvious to me that they were going to be 7 to 7 1/2/10 on speed. We run a pack of dogs that are 14' to 15' tall and run 8-9/10. To keep from putting too much pressure on them we sold the 2 males at prices much lower than was paid by others for othe others at weaning. The female, ROWCO Carolina Moon, is with our good friend and hunting partner Tim Allen who is currently using her as a brood bitch and also training pups. These dogs are 7-7 1/2 on speed, clean, good mouths and can circle a rabbit with anything out there. Johnny and I did not make any money on the deal but had a wonderful time raising and traing them. To the best of my knowledge their current owners will tell you what I have said is true. NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY!
Bobby Williams
APFII wrote:Tim their are a lot of jealous people . To tell you the truth . I am a little jealous of you having Butkus also.
Albert
albert something else that you can worship ogrady for.. i guess ol tim thinks i give a care. i see now why ol tim is so bent over this thread.
dave
Thank you for your wisdom... I hope you feel better. By the way... Destiny is doing just fine here also. I truly do feel sorry for you... You should try to get a life outside of these dogs. It can't be good for your health to have such a level of hate and jealousy.
Tim O'Grady
APFII wrote:Tim their are a lot of jealous people . To tell you the truth . I am a little jealous of you having Butkus also.
Albert
albert something else that you can worship ogrady for.. i guess ol tim thinks i give a care. i see now why ol tim is so bent over this thread.
dave
Thank you for your wisdom... I hope you feel better. By the way... Destiny is doing just fine here also. I truly do feel sorry for you... You should try to get a life outside of these dogs. It can't be good for your health to have such a level of hate and jealousy.
Tim O'Grady
Dave,
You are as sharp as a spoon...Thanks for posting my response to your PM. You truly are a loser and a piece of garbage. You have shown your true colors to everyone. By the way...You won't see my pups on this board for any amount of money. Keep raising and training your world beaters.
Dave Swiger wrote:ill post thus to you and not to the public. i dont give a rats ass what you paid for the dog. i could have bred to that dog long before you ever thought about owning him and didnt...wouldnt now for free. you have no idea what i have and run. if you think that i believe that butkus has paid for for himself in the short time you have owned him....you must be smoking crack. you talk about owning a lifetime dog...you didnt make the dog, you just were able to blow the mcvay's minds with the offer to own one. they laughed all the way to the bank. you sir are the type this thread is talking about ....you will have it if money can buy it, but you will never have it if you have to train it.
I know I shouldnt get into this but I think that the wrong people are being brought into this thread and I am not sure why.
I personally spoke to dave Mcvay at nationals about butkus on the way to our running spot and he still hates that he sold him so I dont think he is laughing at anyone. Dave also mentioned that he was the most complete hound that he has ever seen. (100 degrees -10 degrees and over 2 feet of snow). no matter what the condtions he done what he was suppossed to do. I believe the Mcvays and Tim Ogrady has a pretty good friendship and you shouldnt be trying to start any BS between them. And no I dont own any sundown or butkus dogs so I aint taking sides.
i had a bitch out of destiny put tons of time on her she was ok but lacked wanting the front she was a middle of the pack type of dog jjust dident care where she fell in. if i ran her hard everyday she would quit on me. i think she ended up comming out of that but i ended up getting ride of her. she just did not show the ballance i want in my pack. i do have a half sister that is one of the best bitches i own.
i think she would cross good with tank. he really put the fire in them pups
Assuming destiny is still alive, is she still capable of having pups? Wish I knew more about her history. Ive heard she was a good dog with a good pedigree. Better yet I also understand she wasnt a fluke because she had other full siblings that had good success. With that being said its hard for me to believe she isnt a producer. Has anyone ever bred her over a stud that goes back to copper boy? I know nothin about him but from what I seen when the copper boy stuff is line bred the pups can fly. Dont know how fast destiny was but she was obviously fast enough. Another hound line bred copper boy that I know could roll is brankos red river runner. Regardless if she was a great producer or not I gaurantee if that cross wouldve ever been made there wouldve been pups that could get it on. I would think if she threw some good bitches that just lacked a lil foot it could be restored if those females were bred to runner
....thats just my hypothesis anyways.
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