A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
warddog wrote:There are so many varibles in crosses it is impossible to tell which ones will produce average rabbit dogs at best regardless of crossing an IFC or FC to another IFC or FC UNLESS that specific cross has been made and proven to produce such. There is also so much varibility amoung those in a specific littler so the breeding of that offspring will be another roll of the dice. I see dogs offered for public stud being bred to all kinds of females just because they have the titles and when I see the pedigrees of the offspring there are so many different lines in there I would have no idea of what to even expect as to what I was looking for in a dog. Breeding any female to any male for the first time is a gamble with absolutely no guarantee the offsring will even be average regardless of the titles on the stud and or the female. Even if one is loaded up with a specific line(line bred) in the offspring's pedigree there is no guarantee of anything but what it MAY do is stack the traits one is looking for so as to get more of them as opposed to the ones you don't like. IMHO, until a cross has been made and the offspring proven to be able to be average or above can these high prices be justified. Minus that we are paying for pups with the same potential as any roll of dice may have, be they registered dogs or grade. Price in no way dictates quality, neither does titles when it comes to specifc crosses until or unless the offspring from that specific cross proves worthy of a second breeding.
Ohlinger,
What can you prove wrong in the post I made above? I never stated that any price was right, wrong, good or bad but in FACT stated the higher prices would only be justified IMHO when a cross was proven. Then, even if such a cross was proven there would be no guarantee that every pup from a future cross would make a champion. So here's some more candy thrown to the crowd that you seem to not like to eat although you got the stains all over your lips. By the way a full PM box means about as much as the titles in front of dogs names when it comes to litter consistency. I suspect that there are many who totally understand the point I was making about the varibles in breeding. Sorry but there is NO right or wrong in this situation BUt I'm open for you to show me how you would get away from all the veriables when breeding. When your PM is filled with folks, including me, wanting to buy your pups because you can guarantee them to make field champions then you will become an E.F. Hutton in my eyes, like several others on here are without doing so. Like I said I can tell alot about someone from their words typed on a keyboard as they are normally the same type that comes from their mouth. NUFF said as it makes no difference if one agrees or disagrees but folks who have bred dogs over the years will know exactly what my original post conveyed.
After reading all of this I just had to bump it to the top (enjoyed the passion found within it).
One question:
For the guys that want and expect the price of a pup to be $150, Are you or will you be purchasing the new Garmin Alpha system?
I personally don't see the new Garmin being worth the $799.99 price tag plus $299.99 for each additional collar, but as the buyer I don't get to set the price. It's as simple as that.
why would they spend that much money on something to train and track a dog if there not willing to give a measly $300 dollars for a pup that could (potentially)be a bad sob.
Caplingers Brush Bustin Kennels home of:
caplingers machine gun minnie
caplingers fat daddy
caplingers blue bailey
caplingers big city cash
i already have a garmin and a tritronics i dont see i need that other one . makeing a pup high priced doesnt make it better , just more expensive . i am not near broke and could buy many new garmin products if i wanted too lol.
but why go pay 100 bucks for a long john silvers diner when 10 bucks or less will do the job ,,
i used to have a friend that would buy anything higher priced if 2 items were on the shelf and one was marked higher ,he bought the higher saying its go to be better lol. i just laugh and bought the cheaper one .
i sell my pups cheap usually i aint treying to make anything ,, just not trying to go broke either . about 125 or so , according if i made the cross before or not .
why is this even a fussing matter ... i dont care if u pay 5,000 a pup ,, or 5 dollars its ur money and your pup .. i just aint gonna pay that for a pup or charge that . thats just me . if we differ thats fine too . and i wont even be mad at ya for being different.....
ACTS 2:38=repent,baptised in the name of jesus christ,receive the holy ghost!
WHEN I USE TO DEER HUNT WITH DOGS PEOPLE WOULD BUY AT THAT TIME 15000.00 TRUCK GO PUT 1000.00 SET OF MUD TIRES BROWNING SHOTGUN AND RIFLE LEOUPOLD SCOPE 100.00 BOOTS 300.00 HUNTING CLOTHES 1000.00RADIO LENAR WHAT EVER 1000.00HUNTING DUES 100.00 KNIFE AND I LEFT OUT ALOT BUT WHEN IT CAME TO BUY ADOG TO RUN THE DEER THE MOST IMPORTANT THING U HAD TO HAVE DOG POUND 25.00 AT MOST A HIGH SPENDER MIGHT GO 50.00 $75.00 WAS UN HEARD OF THEY JUST WOULD NOT SPEND THE MONEY A CERTAIN GROUP SMALL GROUP OF US PAYED UP TO 500.00 IN THE SIXTEYS FOR DEER DOGS BUT WE WANTED THE BEST AND GUYS WHO HAD THE BEST TO GET APUP U HAD TO PAY UNHEARD OF PRICE'S AT THAT TIME PERIOD JUST FUNNY HOW PEOPLE THINK I GUESS OH YES THEY HAD MOST COSTIMIZED DOG BOXES U EVER SAW TO PUT A 25.00 DOG N LOL
Big-- I think though the point people are trying to make is for every 500 dollar pup out there that is an amazing rabbit dog there is also a 100 dollar dog that will do the same and for every 100 dollar dog there is the same chance of getting a dud for 500....
God isn't real, Beer is good and people are crazy, there I fixed it.
guess im in good shape then , drive a $1000 truck with a used set of mud tires on it , have a $150 used dog box bought off of craigslist to haul my $50 dogs , they wear $150 shock collars, shoot rabbits with a $35 new england 20 gauge single shot , my boots always seem to leak , can usually only find one glove and my old huntin vest has more holes in it then half the stories on here ! I have said many times before that this stuff can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be one is no better than the other , just preference ! I prefer to be cheap or at least be as cheap as i can be and still have fun !
just want to add something else , i also know guys that drive the most expensive trucks , the best box , the best collars , go afield with a $1000 gun wearing the best hunting clothes money can buy , spend the entire day telling you who their dogs ancestors are for 10 generations and how much they paid for them all the while, their dogs are running side by side with my mutts !
and dont even get me started on the ones that will pay $300 or $400 for a pup or $1000 for a dog and then come on these boards asking for veternarian help for their dogs because vets are soooo expensive if you cant afford to care for them you shouldnt own them
dog wrote:guess im in good shape then , drive a $1000 truck with a used set of mud tires on it , have a $150 used dog box bought off of craigslist to haul my $50 dogs , they wear $150 shock collars, shoot rabbits with a $35 new england 20 gauge single shot , my boots always seem to leak , can usually only find one glove and my old huntin vest has more holes in it then half the stories on here ! I have said many times before that this stuff can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be one is no better than the other , just preference ! I prefer to be cheap or at least be as cheap as i can be and still have fun !
And Checkmate. You just quoted the story of my life. I dont care how many miles my dogs run , just as long as they come too me when i call.
When the moment of truth arrives, the point of preparation has passed.
Old School, Full Throttle ,No Bottle.
Mo. Beagler 5000 wrote:Big-- I think though the point people are trying to make is for every 500 dollar pup out there that is an amazing rabbit dog there is also a 100 dollar dog that will do the same and for every 100 dollar dog there is the same chance of getting a dud for 500....
You got exactly what I was saying when I stated that ANY cross was a roll of the dice! It's been my experiance that breeding any two animals is a gamble on the outcome and I wished I was smart enough to CLONE me one as that's the only way to get offspring that you could guarantee to be exactly what you were looking for consistantly. Until such time as I have the ability or can afford a CLONE when I need a pup, I realize I'll continue to CLOWN at breeding for a consistent cross.
It comes down to what each individual decides they want to spend. For some that amount is very small and for others it maybe very high.
Like i stated earlier if there is a pup from a cross that i want to have in my kennel then I will pay the price regardless of what they are asking if its just a pup from a cross that i dont care about or dont know much about then i may choose to tighten my wallet since i dont care if i have a pup from that cross.
Just for an example years ago i spent around $1000 for a coon hound pup from Alabama this included his plane ticket. This pup was out of a UKC Purina points champion for that year and had been the talk of the coon hunting world for a few years. Some people called me crazy for spending that amount of money for that pup but let me tell you they all liked what they saw and since i was the only one around that had that breeding i made alot of new friends as he turned out to be a pretty good dog. Not great but very good.
Again i saw something i wanted and i paid the price for it. He could have turned out a dud just as well as a stud but that is a chance i was willing to take to have something no one else had. I got lucky and he turned out to be above average.
To each his own if you dont like it dont pay but at the same time stop bitchin cause others are willing to pay for what they want.
The way I see it this type of discussion does nothing more than bring down the value of our sport and hounds. Wether your in it just for the sport of it or not each individual strives to have the best. The best never comes cheap. We all know the gamble of breeding. But I don't see many people picking up to strays and throwing them together. If there is no value in breeding the best two dogs you can put together then why ever go outside your own kennel? Surly any two hounds will produce the same as Junie or reggie or Monesysunk mt man. RIGHT??? Even the guy that turns a grade dog into the next world champion aint gonna sell him for what he gave!! If you want to duplicate something you start with the original blueprint and at times that is gonna cost you!
if you cant afford to care for them you shouldnt own them