"I thought it was an Elk"

WSRandy · Post by **WSRandy** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:09 pm

lol, I swear as a young boy I saw a bear in Morgan Monroe State Forest while bowhunting....dad laughed at me. Just maybe it was a bear.........

http://www.indystar.com/articles/0/184237-5870-093.html

Associated Press
October 6, 2004

FORT WAYNE, Ind. -- A bowhunter did not violate any Indiana laws when he killed an exotic deer that is native to Great Britain, conservation officers said.

At first, Kevin Blum, 45, of Whitley, wasn't sure what he had bagged on the opening day of archery season last Friday.

"I thought, 'Where did this horse come from?"' Blum told The Journal Gazette for a story today. "He was huge."

Blum assumed the animal he shot near Columbia City was a whitetail buck, until he came upon its carcass.

It turned out to be a red deer, a reddish species indigenous to Great Britain and widely distributed throughout Europe and Asia and raised in New Zealand.

"We thought it was an elk because the antlers were spread wide, and it had a little bit of a mane like elk," Blum said.

Officials said there was no record of any deer or elk farmers in Whitley County or Allen County who raise red deer, and none had been reported missing in the area.

"We don't know exactly where it came from, unless it made the trip all the way from New Zealand," said conservation officer Justin Blake.

The Indiana Department of Natural Resources has no regulatory authority over red deer, so Blum did not break state law, officials said.

"You probably field a thousand calls from people thinking they've seen a black panther or bear or mountain lion or moose, and it turns out to be a dog," Blake said.

"And then you get a call from a guy who says he thinks he shot an elk. You go out to see, and here it's a red deer. It was a dandy."

alswamper · Post by **alswamper** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:22 pm

This guy concerns me. Anyone that mistakes a red stag for a whitetail is not an experienced deer hunter or either half blind. Drunk could also explain it. I've hunted where Red Stags are hunted as well on ranches and a 700 lb Red stag looks nothing like a whitetail, not even an INdiana whitetail. lol

ozarksnick · Post by **ozarksnick** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:47 am

Concerns me too...

According to the story, first he thought it was a horse, then he assumed it was a whitetail ... so he shoots it? It seems obvious to me that the whole time he was unsure of what the thing was. And isn't one of the most cardinal rules of hunting to make 100% sure of your target? And especially at bowhunting ranges!

I'm afraid people like this make hunting look bad.

SMITTY1233 · Post by **SMITTY1233** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:19 am

How in the world could you mistake a whitetail for a Red Stag, Quite a bit of difference there, This is why hunters often take a beating. I don't care if he didnt break any state laws he broke a hunting law by not identifying his target first. If he shot this with a bow the thing had to be probably with in 30 yards. WOW!

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:34 pm

Thats exactly one of the reasons folks don't allow hunting on their property. They read something like this and what are they to think. If a person can't tell what the game is and takes it in bow range what would they do if gun hunting? I like to know the people I'm in the field with.

Russ · Post by **Russ** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:03 pm

POSTED SIGNS" hunting with permission only" are a hunters not welcomed sign,yesterday i went to three places with those signs. Told landowner I would not carry a gun,and would only run my hounds in the winter months. Still no, family only. and I think its for reasons like the one posted why landowners dont want strangers around. State land can be a bad place to run a hound also it going to come down to owning your own land. I did ask the game warden if landowners had to let someone hunt he said nope totally his call,the system is perfect.

YGD ( BUNNY BUSTER) · Post by **YGD ( BUNNY BUSTER)** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:03 pm

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A MAN TELLING ME FAMILY HUNTING ONLY.
IT'S HIS LAND & HIS CALL, BUT WHY IN THE H#LL DID YOU ASK A GAME WARDEN IF HE HAD TO LET YOU HUNT. THAT'S AS BAD AS SHOOTING AT A HORSE & HITTING A RED DEER.
BUNNYBUSTER

SMITTY1233 · Post by **SMITTY1233** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:06 pm

BUNNY- I wondered the same thing

, the day a game warden tells me I have to let someone hunt is the day I roll over in my grave!

Beagler · Post by **Beagler** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:27 pm

I ment to say that the game warden said that a land owner didnt have to let anyone hunt.As long as those hunting with permission only signs are posted the law will arrest. U get it ,post the signs dont give permission except to family. I thought those signs was for hunters to get permission from the land owner for hunting because they encourage hunting or want to know who is on ther land.like i said the system is perfect.

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:40 pm

The land owner not only has a right to prohibit you from hunting on their property but they also have the right to NOT allow you to retrieve game or a dog that may have gotton onto their property. You can call the game warden all you want but that game warden has no legal right onto your property for said purpose either.

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:46 pm

We can go on anyone's property to get our dog. Even if its running.

If I knew or saw the owner, I would tell him apologetically what I was doing and that I would sure not bother anything while I as quickly as possible got my dog. But, permission or not, happy or sad, I would go get my dog.

WSRandy · Post by **WSRandy** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:48 pm

Alabama John, Thats how it use to be here

There has been 5-6 people arrested and prosecuted for retrieving their coonhounds & beagles in the last 5 weeks here in Hendricks County, Indiana. The DNR is cracking down and enforcing the law here.

Here is the kicker.......not only is the right to retrieve law gone for us, it also includes farm animals! If farmer Joe's cattle get out and go over on farmer Delbert's land......farmer Delbert dont have to allow farmer Joe on his land to get his cattle back. Now farmer Delbert cant kill the cattle, unless he wants sued, but he can legally keep them cattle until they decide to leave and go back to farmer Joes place........ONLY IN AMERICA BABY!

take care,
Randy

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:11 pm

Alabama John, here in Indiana that could cost you time in jail plus a heavy fine for trespassing whether posted or not. I had this happen one night while coon hunting with a friend. My dogs left the timber we were in and tracked and treed a coon in a small woods of about 10 acres about a mile from where we turned loose. The friend I was with knew the elderly lady's husband had died recently and she would be alone. It was not that late at night about 9:00 so we went to the door to asked her permission to go get our dogs and get them off of her property as soon as we could. She never opened her door and said that she had called the game warden on those dogs barking in her woods. We told her our story and asked to go get them and that we wouldn't be taking a gun. She said NO way and to get off of her property. We waited for the game warden to show up and we explained our story to him , which he understood. He went to the door and introduced himself and also asked that she allow him to accompany us to remove our dogs from her premises. She told him NO and to have us leave from her property. I told him that I was going to go into that tree and he could go with me but I was going after my dog and he replied, "that's your choice but when you step foot on the property I'll have to arrest you" and we knew she would press the charges. After an hour of our dogs barking treed and us trying to call them in from the road to no avail, he went to the door again and told her that if she didn't allow him to escort us to get our dogs that they would bark at that tree all night. He came back and said she agreed to let him and one of us go and remove our dogs and NO gun either. She also told him to tell us this was a one time thing and she wouldn't allow it again as it just wasn't right killing animals. Needless to say we never hunted anywhere close to her place again.

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:41 pm

Surely this is just in Indiana!

How could you keep friends and neighbors and stay peaceably in a community by acting like that to each other.

Looks like farm animals would be getting away at night or while the farmer was gone through holes that appear in fences or gates left (found) open and moving from farm to farm while yours just happened to have came back home on their own and brought a few of his with them. Your cow gets bred to his bull in the meanwhile, whose calf is it if its born or not on his place? Rustling with a modern twist and its legal.

How do you get your dogs then? Wait until they leave someone's property on their own or can the property owner go get your dog that's on their property and keep it like the farm animals. Can the property owner privately demand a ransom and would you pay it?

Interesting, but seems all it would do is cause extremely hard feelings and unknown damage to persons, personal property and farms.

Russ · Post by **Russ** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:02 pm

Thats could happen,someone could hold your hound for ransom.I knew a guy who lost a hound,when the person who found the hound called, he was a kid and said he wanted beer lots of beer for the safe return of the dog.LOL Well my friend had no choice so he gave that kid a case of beer.He got his dog.

Now if my hounds was somewhere that they are not suppost to be,and I could hear them U can put money on it everytime.I will leave with them.One way or the other.

what do you see for the sport in the next twenty years? I have seen less land to hunt, and some / most people seem to be more unlikley to let people hunt private land.I see hunting to become a business,instead of a sport. sad but true.