What is wrong with people?

[jlupem]

I have had the same thing happen as well. Me and my Dad was hunting some public land here is WV. Before got the dogs out and started hunting a man and his son pulled up. We talked a few minutes and he said he was going to bow hunt while his son was going to squirrel hunt. I told to go ahead in front of us and maybe with the dogs beating the brush they might flush a deer to him. We gave them about 30 minutes to get set up. So we got the dogs out and started hunting. We jumped a rabbit within 15 minutes and the chase was on. That rabbit was running big. We hear the dogs getting closer and Dad spots the rabbit crossing the cut path we where hunting on. He couldn't get a shot. We seen the dogs cross and man they where burning it up. we stood there for awhile and hear the dogs getting closer once again. I told Dad to get ready lets bust this rabbit. Then "BOOM" and a few seconds later the dogs shut up. I was alittle worried and then a few seconds later the boy who was squirrel hunting came out on the path holding a rabbit and said "I got the rabbit your dogs was running." He was probably 12 years old. I couldn't help but laugh. Then he said "Here you go you can have your rabbit." Once again I couldn't help but laugh and told him he can just keep it. Me and my Dad went on hunting and we both talked about how we couldn,t believe that someone would do that. I know he was young but when I was that age I knew better and my Dad taught me better then to shoot someone elses game. If it was the man who shot the rabbit things would have been different. I understand completely Joeyman I would have been a little upset too.

[madcatter]

high five to joeyman

[warddog]

Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate here because as a sportsman I know the UNWRITTEN rule about such action. I would have questions of concern before I voice my opinion but I assume that these folks were legally hunting either state or private land. With that said this goes to the same UNWRIITEN sportsman rule as filling the tailgate with game does. Facts are that the game is not owned by any hunter but rather by the people of the state in which they hunt. If these folks were legally hunting that area they had as much right to shoot that rabbit as anyone else did, like it or not just as anyone else has the right to fill the tailgate when doing so legally. I have other questions and concerns for this situation and the biggest one is who was hunting this area first and how far apart were the two hunting parties. If others were there or they came in on me and my dogs I would have tried everything possible to catch my dogs to move onto another spot and or disrupt their ability to shoot in front of my dogs until that rabbit was shot by someone in my hunting party or my pack was caught. Seems as though it was clear what the other partys intentions were and that is when I would have notified those in my hunting party to NOT allow it to happen. If these were one or two weekend a year hunters they probably could care less and I would say they actually are right in that if they were legally hunting that area they were as much legally entitled to shoot that rabbit as anyone else. That rabbit is fair game owned by no one but the people of the state. The dogs are your property and that is exactly why I would have protected my dogs and to hell with the rabbit at the point I saw what was going on. If this was state property you were lucky they didn't report you to the conversation people as harassing them while in legal pursuit of game. The game laws of Indiana speak directly to what is considered harassment of hunters and trappers when intentionally interferred with when LEGALLY taking of game. If folks think shooting a running rabbit in the wild is illegal then someone better show me where the law states such. Would this have been different if a person hunting with a falcon or a hawk had one circling the air? Give it to me all you want BUT truth is Joeyman was legally wrong and in fact he probably violated the law.

[gwyoung]

Hillbilly, First let me say I am glad your land is posted against these lousy ten year olds, Secondly, you don' t believe it is joeyman's job. I think the job belongs to all of us unless of course you don't want to breed any more hunters as they may want to hunt on other peoples posted property. I ask you this my friend if someone thought it was their job to teach these adults that were present when they were ten year olds themselves do you think that might have taken care of things years ago, perhaps folks with your feelings toward helping others caused this problem. I am not faulting joeyman, It is my personal opinion that hunters with his ability can be a big help and I said so!

[gwyoung]

wardog, in the technical sense you are right, but, there are tons of people who lost belongings, property, farms, etc: because of technical things . that doesn't make it right it just makes it legal. There are many unwritten rules of conduct that should be observed when afield. Shooting game in front of another man's hound is one of them. But it isn't always cut and dried, don't always assume someone else has had the benefit of your up bringing. If you shoot rabbits in front of my hounds and I know you know better ,there is going to be a problem, I am first of all going to be convinced you know better , I will give you the benefit of the doubt and explain it to you , very nicely, I wouldn't expect it to happen again though. If children are present, I will catch up to you later.

[thornie]

Wardog, what if one of them would have shot the dogs trying to shoot the rabbit? What law would cover this?

[Casey Harner]

Ken,

I agree with you. But I do have a question for you. Do you feel a ethical rule was broken? I for one believe an ethical rule was broken. My opinion the second party should have asked first to be a part of the party. I think believe common courtesy wasn't used here on the second party.

I am not disagreeing with you but want to see what you think at a different angle.

[bucks better beagles]

Joeyman: I think you are wrong for the following reasons:

1. This has happened to me on several occasions. In Michigan, it is not against the law. Ethically, of course, it is an unwritten law and it is infuriating.

2. To berate a man in front of his children is totally unnecessary over a rabbit.

3. It could have created a very nasty situation. Just supposing that this person was the type who did not take well to verbal abuse. You were both carrying guns, were you not. Something bad could have happened.

4. Some have suggested that it was your responsibility to speak and teach his children. I disagree. A quiet projection of your opinion to the father, could have learned him a few things that he may have passed along to these kids.

5. When it has happened to me, I would catch my dogs and leave. I know quite well I had no obligation to do so but to stay, was just too aggravating. You said yourself that it was not about the rabbit since you have killed more than enough so, why get so upset.

6. You saw the people in the area but chose to try and kill the rabbit rather than going over to them and explaining that killing a rabbit another man's dogs is running, is not proper hunter behavior. If you had taken advantage of the available time, it may have saved all involved and ugly time.

7. Right or wrong, it is over now. No one on this board could advise you of what "should have been done". I can say now to have compassion for yourself and for the others involved. I liked the idea you made that you might have let them tag along with you if they had made advances in this direction. It is possible, you know, that they saw you and thought you didn't care.

[New York Hillbilly]

gwyoung.......lets clear a couple of things. First I don't see anywhere in my post where I called any ten year olds "lousy" so don't put words in my mouth, secondly, the fact that my property is posted is MY right and who I invite hear is MY business. Just as it is Joey's business to invite who he wants to hunt with him. As for helping others lets clear that up as well. Not that I need to explain to you or anyone else but, in my profession I have taken care of children and adolescents for many years which includes teaching, counseling and in many cases prescribing medications. These children have been traumatized by, abused by and taught by some real awful adults. As a result their behaviors are totally unsafe and out of control and sadly in many instances their psychiatric state damaged for life. Additionally, I have also done missionary work in El Salvador caring for children, women and the elderly. I have been active at all levels of sportsman's groups, given free beagle puppies (including on this very site)and at times trained adult hounds to kids for free, and provided opportunities for young and old to take their first and in some instances their last deer on my POSTED land. So there is no need to get mouthy with me! I'm glad you referred to me as your "friend".

I responded to you in a respectful way and simply pointed out my opinion to you that I think nothing would be learned by the kids by rewarding the behavior of their wayward adult role models, and that Joey was not at fault here. I no more attacked or disrespected you than you did Joey so I don't see any reason for you to take a snotty tone with me. You told Joey he was wrong.......I disagreed.......no more .....no less. It was not a declaration of war! We just see this thing in a different way. Having said that, good hunting to you, Happy New Year and ...peace!

[10ACbeagles]

To be clear did you go off on a kid or an adult? If it was a kid then a different approach would've been better,if it was an adult(which is how I read it)then good for you Kids around or not.Everyone making excuses is BS and its just "for the sake of argument" on a forum that your defending this person.Talking about joeymans responsibility what about the ppl who crept over uninvited by Joeyman and not being RESPONSIBLE infront of their kids and "sneaking" over so to speak.Way to teach the kids! Dont ask just sneak over and do what you want! The bottom line to me would be these people obviously werent houndsman they were out to jumpshoot some rabbits and if thats your thing so be it. That being said us houndsman are a particular bunch with all our rules(not that their wrong)these people dont understand/care about "how we do it".The right and responsible thing to do ESPECIALLY with kids around would have been to come over and ask someone if they would be able to join.Who cares about goin off on someone infront of their kids,they guy must've known he was in the wrong or he would've said something and stood up for himself.

[gwyoung]

After reading posts by hillbilly and others I have to admit I was wrong, Don't ask if they knew what they were doing was wrong , it doesn't matter, honest and ignorant mistakes should not be overlooked by anyone,( Lord, knows we don't make any) As far as kids are concerned why don't we give them the full lesson and kick hell out of them also. Sorry, I ever defended this bunch guys, I am back now!

[yoteslayer]

Someone stated thats its illegal to iterfere with someones legal harvest of game, isnt that what they did to Joeyman? I would not be pleased if this happened to me. If the dogs had run to the area they were hunting I could see them shooting the rabbit. Since they came to the area you were hunting they were in the wrong and they were interfereing with your hunt.

[gwyoung]

And they shot at a rabbit that was worth at least half a million dollars!

[deerhost]

I'm sorry, no disrespect to Joeyman but if it were me I would have picked up my dogs as soon as I would have seen others hunting the same area. I put alot of time and effort into my dogs and there safty is not worth a rabbit. I owe it to my dogs to keep them safe. There are alot of idiot hunters out there and wouldn't chance them getting shot. I would have picked them up and let the knuckle heads have the spot, kept my dogs out of harms way and moved onto a vacant piece of property....DH

[rnbrunton]

Joey,Nobody on this board was there.You did what you thought was right at the time.good luck rnb