jump dogs in field trials.

[Trugunner]

A jump dog and a hard hunting dog definitely not the same. Ive seen dogs cast, hunt 50yds and jump and other wild and crazy dogs take off and go 1/2 mile and jump. The 1/2 miler is sometimes considered a hunting machine and the close hunter is considered lacking.

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

i know most wont agree with me probably , but i;d say some have never seen a great jump dog , they are few and far bewteen. any dog that will hunt hard will jump rabbits as they should . \

but a true jump dog is a thing of beauty. i fortunaly have had 2 in my life ,been running dogs most of my life started at age 13 now 52 . the odds aint giood of haveing another which i dont right now . but i have 3 great hunters and they jump alot of rabbits bewteen the 3 if a rabbit is anywhere near it will be found quick.

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

i really didnt adress the question after i reread my post lol.

so yes a jump dog can do good at trials lp/pp for sure thats all i know about .

one of the jump dogs i had championed out in 6 trials and didnt place in her 1st 2 ..
just hard to beat a dog that gets 2 jumps per cast thats 80 points . plus she was a good check dog ..

[Ohiohntr]

I must disagree about AKC trials giving credit to jump dogs or promoting hunting/jump dogs.

It has been a while since I got into an internet battle but......some of you are full of crap, waist deep!!! Maybe in NY (who knows), but don't cast a broad blanket over AKC SPO because I have judged several and have decided a winning hound many times over the # of jumps and hunt. Sorry man, you hit a nerve...handlers are encouraged to jump rabbits because of the time restriants and wanting to get through several packs but don't believe for a min that the judges aren't keepin an eye on who is hunting and who is not....and yes, I have picked up many dogs for not hunting....that sir equals a negative everytime I see the hound standing around. It might not be right away but I sure as heck make note of it in my book and that dog is not coming back to the next series.

I would love to see the actual scripture of the guy quoting the AKC rule book because I have read it several times and I sure haven't seen anything like that in there. Geesh, in fact I have it right beside me and still can't find it. Please feel free to post the exact language for us please because what I see is that hunt is valued and in fact a hound that does not "search" for game is to be disqualified or picked up and hunt as well as finding game is to be marked as a merit to that hound.

Harner, I like ya but I would be curious where you saw an AKC SPO hound jump 3 rabbits in one series and get picked up. Are we talking true (you were in there and the judges saw the dog that jumped it) jumps...or just sight chases out of the brush. Reason being...I have judged with many other Midwest judges and they all valued jump and hunt as well...although the flip being is that the dog may jump the heck out of rabbits but if he or she is a total idiot on the track then the negatives will out-way the positive jump credit.

Hmmmm....

[JCM]

The working of hounds is a Farce! we have handlers RUNNING thru the woods screaming and yelling like a bunch of Banshees and expecting a hound to work the brush wondering why the dogs are walking behind them on a trail
because that is where most of them 'WORK their hounds
Lets set on a stump and let the hounds work see where the hunt is!!

There are really good things about AKC trials, but the constant talking and yelling to hounds makes me crazy. I agree with fulcount--shut up and let the dogs hunt. Good jump dogs can hardly hunt for all of the constant handling. I think a lot of the time the dogs would find a rabbit quicker if the handlers would just shut up and leave them alone.

[Bradh]

I personally wont own a dog that wont hunt I like them buried in a brush pile.

[deerhost]

I never said that at NY SPO trials that a dog is given credit for jumping rabbits. Thats not the case, what I said was if a dog is sitting on the path not doing anything the dog will get picked up. In other words if a dog stands at your feet and won't hunt it will get picked up. Is this always the case? No, some field trialers with dogs that have no hunt are good at walking there dogs into the brush to hide them from the judges. Some judges are just too busy trying to keep an eye on everything else thats going on. What i'm trying to say is AKC SPO don't promote a dog that does not hunt. Do these dogs win at times and finish? Yes they do and I've seen it. And Ohiohntr hit it on the head, yes handlers of dogs at SPO trial are encouraged to work the dogs into the brush but it is only because at times you have 30 -40 dogs at these trials and in SPO you can only run 7 dogs to a pack so you are under time limits. I am not a die hard trialer, Matter of fact I only attend a handfull or trials a year. BTW people who responded to this thread have some nerve, with out mentioning any names I was at a SPO trial at the Adirondack Beagle club in NY a while back, It was actually 2 years ago and I remember spicifically a person who was running the trial get up and with an attitude and say," you handlers better work your dogs and jump rabbits!" I'm sure when you read this you will know exactly who you are......Good night fellas!...DH

[Ohiohntr]

I never said that at NY SPO trials that a dog is given credit for jumping rabbits. Thats not the case, what I said was if a dog is sitting on the path not doing anything the dog will get picked up. In other words if a dog stands at your feet and won't hunt it will get picked up. Is this always the case? No, some field trialers with dogs that have no hunt are good at walking there dogs into the brush to hide them from the judges. Some judges are just too busy trying to keep an eye on everything else thats going on. What i'm trying to say is AKC SPO don't promote a dog that does not hunt. Do these dogs win at times and finish? Yes they do and I've seen it. And Ohiohntr hit it on the head, yes handlers of dogs at SPO trial are encouraged to work the dogs into the brush but it is only because at times you have 30 -40 dogs at these trials and in SPO you can only run 7 dogs to a pack so you are under time limits. I am not a die hard trialer, Matter of fact I only attend a handfull or trials a year. BTW people who responded to this thread have some nerve, with out mentioning any names I was at a SPO trial at the Adirondack Beagle club in NY a while back, It was actually 2 years ago and I remember spicifically a person who was running the trial get up and with an attitude and say," you handlers better work your dogs and jump rabbits!" I'm sure when you read this you will know exactly who you are......Good night fellas!...DH

Good post DH....at first I thought you were responding to me, I was thinking to myself "heck, he was the only one I agreed with"...lol. Yes, some hounds do slip by but this is not the norm by any means. Bottom line is that there are a few on here that are spouting about AKC SPO who have not been to a trial in at least a year or more and others who have only been to MAYBE two if that. Yet, they are somehow self proclaimed spokesman on how hounds are judged and scored...yet neither of them have ever judged...this burns my butt

I have very little patience for people this week for some reason.

I have seen very few true jumpdogs....these dogs will not go in every brushpile, they are too smart for that...they go in the piles that have a rabbit in them.

[Bryan]

As a judge in AKC, if I can figure out or know what dog jumped the rabbit, it gets score. Sometimes you can't tell if you don't see it or there are several dogs running the rabbit by the time you catch up. But for me, jump dogs get score.

[Ohiohntr]

I guess I should clarify the answer to your question as I got way off the line and somewhat over the end....I value merits in this order...jumps, then turns from the middle, then checks, then drives (with control). That is just me and that is why there are two judges. Again, I have not judged with a judge in AKC that didn't value a true jump 1st on the list....NOT sight chases....jumped from the bed. It is really hard to visually catch the dog that actually jumped it, but it can and does happen.

[Lance]

I also feel its hard to find a jump dog these day. Only one true insane jump dog I know of.

LOL, I find it funny that you often start a post to try and put a plug in for someone else's dog. Ok Harner....I'll bite.....what dog is it????????? ...lets see...gotta be Skipper, Runner, or J-Dell....am I right??????

[J.C. Blair]

As a judge in AKC, if I can figure out or know what dog jumped the rabbit, it gets score. Sometimes you can't tell if you don't see it or there are several dogs running the rabbit by the time you catch up. But for me, jump dogs get score.

Bush I think we need to pick up Bonnette and Harner for overshooting the turns and layin lines.........I've only seen 3 or 4 jumpdogs that I call true jumpdogs.

[DJC]

What is the time restraint in an AKC SPO trial? in the last 5 years I think I can count on 1 hand how many trials actually last all day, and usually thats a judges disagreement or someone trying to prove something. In the northeast SPO trials you are hard to find a class that draws more then 25 the days of 40 dog classes are pretty much behind us yes there maybe an exception here or there. I remember in the past classes that were held over till the following day if needed. If when I am hunting I needed to walk through the brush to jump rabbits or yell at the hounds to get them to hunt I wouldn't enjoy hunting and would really not have a reason to own a beagle.
I attend about 15 AKC SPO trials a year, and judge about 10 a year for the last 5 years. If there is a dog that I clearly see jumps a rabbit due to its hunt (not luckily walking by) I will give it score. But over the course of a day how many times does this occur? If a club has a good game supply getting a rabbit is easy, and if they aint got game then the handlers start going through the brush and start "working the dogs" and I aint giving credit for a handler making his dog go into the lucky brush pile or a handler kicking out a rabbit that runs by a dog. Also as previously stated how often to we "mark a line" and put the next pack on the same rabbit. Perhaps the terrain has something to do with this as well I have judged from the southern part of Va. to just outside of Boston, but nearly every club was a minimal hilly but most were on the sides of moutains. Blocks are generally large and most are really thick, seeing in the blocks for the majority of the year is difficult at best. An experienced handler has the ability to "hide" his non hunting hound pretty easy. The guy that walks through the brush and calls his dog in to "hunt" a.k.a. walk beside him chances are his dog doesn't hunt, the guy that "works" his dog away from the other hounds knows the judges are gonna stay with the pack for the most part so if he isn't with the pack but close by, his dog doesn't have to hunt but is close enough to get in on the race when one of the other dogs jump a rabbit. If a handler allows his dog to stand on the path where the judge can see it his dog is gonna be demerited and probably picked up. Other formats have there flaws but I feel they promte and reward a jump dog better. If you have never been to trials or hunts in other registeries go observe one I think you will be surpised at what you see.

[Casey Harner]

I also feel its hard to find a jump dog these day. Only one true insane jump dog I know of.

LOL, I find it funny that you often start a post to try and put a plug in for someone else's dog. Ok Harner....I'll bite.....what dog is it????????? ...lets see...gotta be Skipper, Runner, or J-Dell....am I right??????

Thanks I am happy I can make you laugh, I give credit to anyone's dog. I challenge you to hunt with Skipper. He placed 6th in the opens at the World. He won his casts because of his jump dog stature.

[fulcount]

Ohiontr
Read pg 40 par 8l and interpret it for us does this not give credit more for style of hunt over accomplishment