Young dog starting bad habits

[rickk]

Hey guys just needing some advise on a young male with backtracking..This one until lately has been doin a fair job in the field. I have 2 males that are 1and half yrs old and a 5yr old experienced female dog. Last weekend while hunting the dogs jumped a rabbit and ran it down a hillside to a check area where the rabbit turned and ran down a fence row..I was watching and saw everything. When they got into the check area and they were struggling a bit 1 of my males started back up the hill where the rabbit was jumped and started barking and the other dogs honored him and left the check area and came to him..I was so upset..When i returned them to the check area they couldnt find it..Whats the best way to solve this problem?? Should i shock him when i see him doin this or what..I really want to fix this before he gets to doing that alot..Its just something ive saw in him lately..I hate to cull him as he has GREAT hunt..Thanks for your help guys.

[rabbit runer]

i have a 10 month male that does the same thing he does it at least 2 times ever time i take him out i am in the same boat you are in i don"t know what to do either hope some one can help both of use out

[barnold1]

I'd take him out solo and maybe the light will start to come on that the track's falling apart as he continues to go the wrong way, if there's not another dog there to get it going and bail him out.

[chapkosbeagles]

SHOCK UM AND TURN THEM AROUND AND DONT WAIT TILL THEY RUN IT 100 YARDS

[Alabama John]

Make sure another rabbit didn't go UP that fence line shortly before your dogs went DOWN it and have the lose.
Many times what seems as backtracking is simply changing rabbits.

Rabbits do run back the way they came trying to lose the dogs. You see this a lot in swamps when rabbits come to water, don't cross, but turn around and go straight back the way they came for as far as they can and then jump off to one side and squat. Its done far more on slower dogs that those running close to the rabbit.

[Yang]

LOL I have heard all sorts of ways in training a beagle. Some advice will mislead you and some will improve you. If you want to learn something then attend a trial or look up online and see who is doing the most wins in a hunting beagle field trial and ask them how they do it. Quality guys wont mislead you with information.

[cold trailin]

well if it wasnt another rabbit,i would cut my losses and move on.it will probably get worse

[gpen08]

I think a smart dog will figure it out that he is going the wrong way. The question is when. Some dogs it seems figure it out young others don't. A friend of mine who was a dog man all his life told me to walk behind a dog that backtracks and keep them going forward. If they try to go around you don't let them and encourage them to keep going forward. Keep calling them back to the check area until they pick the line back up. If not then move on.

[Laneline]

I like to wait and show leniency toward the hound to find out if it becomes aware of its own mistakes and makes its own correction. But only for a short time and only for a few times. There are “learned” traits and there are “instinctive” traits. If he has “learned” this from other dogs that he has been ran with, then he can be taught different. If he has been soloed and “instinctively” chooses to do this time and time again, that’s another story. Many young dogs lack the ability to determine direction of game travel. The good ones figure it out.

I would run him with a larger pack and only with dogs that refuse to honor him if he backtracks. I would also solo him and allow him to run it a few times backwards until the line becomes cold and see if he chooses to “turn around” or if he is content that the line is a loss and gives up and moves on to another rabbit.

He needs the opportunity to become aware of his own mistakes, and the opportunity to make his own correction, without your intervention. Do this by soloing. Sometimes this is frustrating and hard to do, but they learn the most with this method. I have found that when they correct themselves, it sticks for life. If you punish them into correction, they seem to eventually go back to their old ways.

He also needs the opportunity to be influenced by other dogs that it is a mistake. Do this with a larger pack that will not honor him backtracking and will pull him up by keeping the rabbit moving forward.

Again, if it is a “learned” trait it can be corrected, but if it is because of the way he is wired and all his instincts are telling him to go the wrong way, punishment in that scenario is not the answer, because even if you shock him into going the right way, you will later be doing the same to his pups that he throws those same “instinctive” traits in, later down the road. It would be like shocking a Leopard because it has spots. It’s all a part of the DNA of the dog and the culling process. Hopefully yours will snap out of it, many do given a chance. Good Luck

[mybeagles]

By the account you gave, the dog has done this on a number of occations. This leads me to believe he is not switching rabbits but backtracking. I'm a bit suprised with all the advice to try and correct it.

For all you that advised this guy to correct it with shock collars, is that what you do when you have a backtracker? Has it ever worked?

Just curious, how would you describe this dogs nose......great nose....average nose.....poor nose? Does he take the backtrack all the way back to jump or just quit? If and when he quits, does he go back to the check or just move on?

I'm a firm believer that beagles will teach you more than you will teach them. The great ones teach you much, the poor ones bore you to death.

Mybeagles

[chapkosbeagles]

my beagles i personally only hav had one beagle ever do this I DID BREAK HIM BY SHOCKING HIM but he was not bad about it. when he was in the check he was very excitable and would grab it hard the wrong way some times. i would shock him when he would do this and turn him around on the track. he had a big nose this was elmer he was easy too break as he was a special dog only did it a few times as a young dog. maybe he worked it out his self..

this was the beagle that would sit pretty shake (both paws) high five, laydown, role over, shut the door on his own when he decided to come it as he was a house dog. and much much more also the best little buddy and rabbit dog i ever had.

SO WITH ALL THIS SAID MAYBE SOMEONE WHO HAS HAD THIS PROBLUM ALOT MORE WOULD BE MORE HELPFULL

[mybeagles]

when he was in the check he was very excitable and would grab it hard the wrong way some times.

In my mind there is a big difference between crossing a hot track and going the wrong way and............running a track for a 1/2 circle and then turning around and running it backwords, running over his own track.

If a dog has to be shocked so it wont re-run a track he just run, its not much of a dog. Like others have said, you have to make sure the rabbit didn't double back.....very few dogs will run a double back and do it right.....it takes a big nose and big brain.......the line is very fine between brilliance and fool.....

Mybeagles

[chapkosbeagles]

as i said i only had the one do it as a pup, but is this A COMMAN PROBLEM IN PUPS?

[mybeagles]

I don't think you see as much of it in field trial bred pups because of the obsession with hot nosed dogs. Cold nosed hounds seem to be much more suseptable to it. If you're breeding hounds for BIG nose, you no doubt will see more of it.

Ive owned a couple that would cut a hot track and take it the wrong way for 10-15 yards, but then figure it out and run it right. These two both had big noses and could do much better than average on rabbits that doubled back. Never seen either of these dogs run a rabbit to a check and then backtrack it. I like dogs with big noses that can run in the extremes, but along with that comes some extra mouth and backtracking on a cut track.

I owned one pup out of Mr. Tee's Tiger that would run a track till the first check and then turn around and backtrack it to the jump. He didn't make it to adult hood.......dont see too many of these, but you also dont see very many dogs with a big nose......

Mybeagles

[rickk]

Thanks for all the advise guys. Im gonna be patient with him because of his age..I will take him out solo a few times and give him a chance to learn on his own. I will also run him in a Large Pack. My buddy has 3 great dogs and I actually have 4. Its just most places we hunt are not big enough areas for 7 dogs. Im pretty sure he wasnt changing rabbits, but it is possible i guess..He didnt bark while he was running back up the hill. He started barking when he got into the area where the rabbit was jumped..He wasnt actually like running the rabbit backwards but was definetely going over a covered track.