The trainer or the dog?

[Bunnyblaster]

It was a joke but here's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

You can't train an untrainable dog any more than you can teach an idiot trainer how to get the best out of each of his or her dogs. Some dogs will be unbelievable with or without our help and some won't be worth a hoot with all the time and help in the world. Most dogs don't know to chase only rabbits and they can't learn that all on their own anymore than they can learn to stay out of the road so they don't get hit. A lot of what we "teach" our dogs is for their safety and/or our own convenience otherwise they'd be chasing/tracking whatever they felt like whenever and wherever they felt like doing it. There are lots of things we can and can't teach our dogs and there are lots of things they can teach us. Also, I prefer to look at the "teaching" more like "steering". The old saying goes "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." has a lot more truth to it than some might think. Shock collars are great but for some stubborn dogs they are just a means of control more than a training tool. I think it takes both but you can't just make a great dog out of nothing. And a dog can't become great if it's left in a kennel most of the time either. Think of how many dogs there are out there that would have been great rabbit dogs but ended up just being pets............or happen to live where there aren't rabbits. There's too much involved and too many variables to cover every possible scenario or to just make a blanket statement that it's only because of just one or the other.........again, jmo.

[gwyoung]

Bunnyblaster, well put, I am sure you noticed that what I said could also be put in the category of jovial banter.

[Bunnyblaster]

Bunnyblaster, well put, I am sure you noticed that what I said could also be put in the category of jovial banter.

......I took no offense to it.

[Mitch DeVore]

You can teach or train a dog to mind or handle. Dogs learn by reptition of comands. You can't teach a dog to run a rabbit no matter how many times you shock him. Some dogs learn quicker than others, some don't learn at all. Just like some of my kinfolks. You can't fix stupid!!

[Duke]

Exactly were only talking about handling which can be taught. Yes some hounds are naturally good at handling......just as some hounds are natural retrievers for example. Except for the stupidest of hounds most can be taught to handle.

All species have their idiots. For example shooting a hound for not understanding what it has not been taught, would be considered ignorant by most intelligent humans. Hounds and humans have some members that are beyond help, but luckily they are the minority.

[roscoe]

my question is on handling only. I know a trainer has to work with a dog ( pup ) But is there only so much you can do? is that dog gonna break and handle the way you want or is there a point where that dog will cooperate and still has a mind of its own?

I will add this ,I dont want to step on any toes or make anyone mad But there is no way anyone is gonna convence me that a trainer is responsible for , weather a dog hunts or not. That is entirely up to the dog and its breeding ( as long as the dog was given the oppurtunity to make something.)

You answered your question ! There is only so much you can do about handling. Some will be easy and others will be stubborn . I have a stubborn one that hunts his butt off and has a cold nose;gets in the brush,never wants to quit. That's what e-collars are for .To get them to come back if they don't listen. Every dog is not the same.I'll take him any day over an average well handling beagle.You are right about training not affecting hunting ability.It is not gonna happen . It's breed in or it's not.All you can do is put him on rabbits and hope for the best. I've been told to keep young dogs away from dogs with bad habits ;that they'll learn them. I don't believe it. It's not a habit it's a trait that's breed into them. They are dogs;not people . You can't tell them they are not supposed to skirt,swing,back-track,etc. Just my opinion