Advice on growing my kennel

[talley-ho]

I have three gyps all about 20 months old.

#1- hunts her A@# off, top end of med-fast, works checks well, likes to be on the front, great endurance(will hunt daylight-dark), squele mouth, has serious underbight.

#2- poor hunter until rabbit is jumped, top end of med-fast, cheats to stay on front instead of working check inside out, good endurance, chop mouth, beautiful hound.

#3- great hunter, med-slow, works checks well, works at own pace, good endurance, bawl mouth, works checks well, overweight no matter how much I run her.

Speed is not that important to me. I want a beagle to work the line first, try to catch the rabbit second. I would like to end up with a good looking pack of hounds, but good hunting is more important to me. #1 is the best overall hound to me, but I am sceptical about breeding her b/c of underbight. People have told me that this can be bred out of her, but I don't want to put a lot of deformed beagles in population. I am new to the sport, and just wondering where you vets think I should go from here.

[Steve C.]

I don't mean to be critical but from the description you gave, none of these bitches appear to be worthy of breeding. When you attempt to breed the faults out of a line, you are looking at doing a LOT of culling which no one wants to do. Otherwise you're bound to end up feeding a kennel full of poor to mediocre hounds that no one wants. My recommendation is to buy the absolute best bitch you can find that is not only proven, but suits your needs, no matter the cost, and breed her to the best male you can find that is a proven producer. There's an old saying that you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, and nowhere is this more true than in breeding dogs. While there are no guarantees in breeding beagles, you CAN stack the deck in your favor. Good luck to you.

[S.R.Patch]

Steve has given excellent advice, the only thing I would add is "family". The hounds used should have a family of related, quality hounds behind them, not for one but for many generation, known to produce the type your after...
Best of luck with your venture ...Patch

ps. how does a bitch with a serious underbite chew the cord when welping. Most likely she will use the side teeth to chew and there will be many where the cord is torn loose from the belly completely, leaving the gut exposed. This is where the even or scissor bite is most important on the bitch, to sever the cord without undue roughness that may tear the tender belly of the pup.

[yellowdog]

these guys hit it on the head...if your gonna breed out faults their will have to be excessive culling and that is really an unneccesary avenue for you...my best advice is to get your foundation set up with the bitch that has all the qualities you like and then search for a stud that has a history of producing pups with traits you are looking for to add to your bitch....good luck

[bluehound1]

I find it hard to believe that none of you has breed a faulty dog. I doubt that all of your dogs in your kennel are perfect. This is the biggest problem on this fourm. Everybody thinks they have perfect dogs and want to rag someone elses breeding program. If you don't like it don't buy one. It seems like everybody on here wants to cry about their dogs are the best and you are screwing up the breed if you breed faulty dogs. Well news flash to everyone I haven't seen to many perfect rabbit dogs that can do it all. So why in the world is it so easy to buy pups from anywhere? Does everyone here on the forum have perfect dogs that can do it all. That don't mean run as fast as they can to get to the front of the pack to win a feild trial. I mean a perfect gundog that can do it all. Sorry about this but I am just sick of it. I will no be on here anymore. If it had useful information then i might visit. This might as well be a chat room. It is really easy to type that you have a perfect dog but put it is alot harder to prove it. PROVE IT. So long to eveyone and great hunting.

Jeremy

[Richard G]

Jeremy, sounds to me like you have had a bad day. In reading the above post I can not see where anyone was knocking anyone elses breeding program or hounds. Just some opinions that were asked for from the person calling themselves Tally-ho. No one made any claims about having the perfect hound. If you go back and read you will see what I am saying. From the post you posted I would be lead to believe that you are the one knocking someone. I do not believe that this is the case and Jeremy I hope your day gets better. We all work for the better of the breed and that is all we can do. Hope you do not take offence with my post, it is not meant to start trouble. All opinions should be spoken as long as they are not meant to harm others. Good luck with your breeding program and your hounds.

[Big Dog]

Don't get all riled up Jeremy. I don't think these folks are trying to say their dogs are perfect. Believe me there are no perfect dogs out there, I have never seen a dog that didn't have some fault no matter how small it was. When it comes to owning and breeding beagles it is all about what pleases you personally and what you can put up with. I think my dogs are pretty good, but by no means perfect, but I'm sure that there is someone out there that wouldn't own them. When planning a breeding you have to know the faults of your dog and the dog that you are breeding to, you probably don't want to breed two dogs with the same fault as you increase your chances of recreating that fault. In the eyes of most people there are faults that we can live with and those that we can't. The advice that the folks gave you on the dog with the underbite was indeed sound advice. If you decide to make the cross you go in knowing that some of the pups "may"inherit the underbite problem. Bite is a fault that means a lot to some folks and hardly anything to others. The average gun hunter wouldn't give a rats a_ _ about a dogs bite but it is a trait that folks should be aware of as it can cause problems with a whelping mother. With that being said, until I got into field trialing a couple of years ago I had never even looked in a dogs mouth and I nor my uncle ever had any problems with whelping or running to my knowledge and my uncle raised a lot of pups over the years. Breed what pleases you and don't let what others say get you down. Everyone talks about bettering the breed, but I'm all about bettering my own kennel as long as they please me then pee on what anyone else thinks. (I am extremely hard to please though, so my standards would probably be right in line with those who claim to be bettering the breed). Each person has a different opinion on what traits they would consider necessary for bettering the breed. For example: Talk to most guys that live in KY, IN, NC, VA, SC, OH and they will tell you not to breed a dog that cold trails as most of us in this area don't like cold trailing. Now talk to a guy from NY, NH, ME or VT and they will tell you a dog that can cold trail a hare and get him started in rough conditions is worth his weight in gold. Which one is actually bettering the breed??????? What gets the job done for you, personally as a beagler is all that matters.

Big Dog

[MasonsBeagles]

Preach it BigDog...

[Robert W. Mccoy Jr]

Well said big dog.

I also agree with what Steve C. Has said.

Very few people are willing to spend the money or the time to get the absolute best bitches they can find. Out of the blood lines they want to work with.

I truley believe the only way to build a good kennel is get the best bitch you can not afford. LOL.

Make the hard decisions that need to be made now before you start not a few years later.

Just my opinion.

Now as far as perfict dogs go. I have seen alot of nice ones. But never a perfict one.

[talley-ho]

I appreciate the advice. If anyone was too critical to was me, but I tend to be that way about my beagles. I have run with a lot of people who field trial their hounds and have seen few that I would trade for mine. As bad as I hate it(I love the way #1 hunts), I don't think I will breed the underbite. I do think #2 has potential. She is the smartest beagle I have ever been around and she runs a rabbit well. I just wish she would work harder until they get one up. Can hunt be bred in? Would solo time break her of depending on others to jump one for her?

[Robert W. Mccoy Jr]

I think hunt can be breed in with out a doubt.

It is just another trate.

Sometimes you will get two dogs in the same litter one will have alot of hunt and the other will not.

I say just try and off set her faults.

[S.R.Patch]

Hey Bluehound,
Didn't mean to offend When we answer a question, we speak in terms of the "ideal". I wallow in the same wagon rut as everyone else an no, I have no perfect hounds. It is the "ideal" we speak of when giving advice so others will see and do the best they can, there is no perfection.
Randall gave us the whole story, but says of himself, "I had to learn the hard way, so as too save you much valuable time and money, here's what you do."
It is good advice that's been passed to us or lessons we've personally learned through experience that we pass on too benefit others.
No sour grapes intended...Patch

[windy hollow]

I have three gyps all about 20 months old.

#1- hunts her A@# off, top end of med-fast, works checks well, likes to be on the front, great endurance(will hunt daylight-dark), squele mouth, has serious underbight.

#2- poor hunter until rabbit is jumped, top end of med-fast, cheats to stay on front instead of working check inside out, good endurance, chop mouth, beautiful hound.

#3- great hunter, med-slow, works checks well, works at own pace, good endurance, bawl mouth, works checks well, overweight no matter how much I run her.

Speed is not that important to me. I want a beagle to work the line first, try to catch the rabbit second. I would like to end up with a good looking pack of hounds, but good hunting is more important to me. #1 is the best overall hound to me, but I am sceptical about breeding her b/c of underbight. People have told me that this can be bred out of her, but I don't want to put a lot of deformed beagles in population. I am new to the sport, and just wondering where you vets think I should go from here.

Ive got an excellent hunting bitch that has a serious overbite, and she has five pups, and not one of them have an overbite.

[S.R.Patch]

My mother has a cross-bite, my brother nor I have a cross bite but my son has a cross-bite.
My Grandfather was a foxhunter, couldn't get enough of it, my father never cared to hunt but I was blessed with the curse...Patch

[Steve C.]

Bluehound, most of us learned the hard way and after spending a LOT of time and money in attempt to have a pack we are proud of, we finally saw the light and found the fastest, cheapest and easiest way to success is as I described earlier. Of course we all want perfect hounds, but none of have any. A hound worthy of breeding doesn't have to be perfect, just fairly fault free and those faults or weaknesses need to be addressed when breeding. I currently have 7 bitches in my kennel- all very good hounds. I consider 2, maybe 3 of them breeding stock. Just like most everyone else, I've gone the route of thinking I can produce great hounds by judicious breeding, but unless the genes in these hounds are programmed for success, failure is inevitable. I know a lot of guys who feel like you do- all have either learned this lesson the hard way, or got out of beagling entirely. I sure don't know everything, but I know what mistakes I've made, and if I can help someone avoid making those same mistakes, I'm happy. BTW, yes, hunt CAN be added by breeding, but you will still get some offspring lacking in this trait.