Is it born in them???????

[Joeyman]

I was running dogs this weekend since season is out. I was out there by myself just thinking to myself.

IS IT BORN INTO THEM?

what you may wonder.......is it born in them to get into the brush on their own and find you a rabbit. I'm talking bout them dogs that once you turn them loose they go off deep into the thickest crap they can find and just search and search sniff and sniff tail waggin entire time looking for a trace of rabbit scent or bed jump a rabbit.

and is it possible to ruin a dog into not doing this?

I have a new pup right now he is 4 months old. It was his first time in the wild this weekend. I want to teach him to go off and just go on his own and root around. HOW CAN I DO THIS. here comes the question again is it born into him to do that. Or will I ruin him by keeping him in my sights all the time. What I did was ignore him. I just stood there. he come up a few times jump on my leg but I ignored him. He played some and chewed some sticks and walked around. He even tried to follow the big dogs then came back looking for me.

Does anyone know what I'm trying to say?

[Tundra Beagle]

Joey, I think the hunt is born into them, but you can definetly improve the desire to get into the brush if when they are young you can show them that doing that will produce rabbits. The more they see rabbits produced the better they will get in there. I know with my pups when they were small I would make sure they knew I was around, but would not pay alot of attention to them if they came and stuck around. I think they need security when they are small but also need to know that if they go and venture off that they will not be left alone. Each dog is different. By the looks of your posts and dogs I think your pup will be just fine.

[Joeyman]

he did try and follow the big dogs cause as they would come thru following a rabbit I'd try and get close to them so he could join. he couldn't keep up with them....lol but he did try all on his own. He had no clue what they were doing but he ran after them. then he brought me back a big stick.......lol

i'm just worried is all and looking for ideas....... I want to teach him right. I want him to bust brush all on his own come gun season. I want to not make him dependant on my other dogs to jump him a rabbit. I don't want him to want me to find him a rabbit to run either. I want him to do it all by himself. I think i made a mistake with my lightning dog which is the last dog i trained. She don't want to find her own rabbit she likes to wait for the other dogs to find it for her. once they do she takes off fast packs up and is either the front runner or second in line. she can lead a pack aswell and can get checks and its always go go go go. but she won't find her own rabbit i don't think she has ever jumped her own either. i'm not 100% sure of that.

now some of you may say SOLO her. well I haven't had the time and she's been packed up since she was young. My thoughts are that she should have it in her to go and find her a rabbit. I shouldn't have to solo her to do this.

[KILLNTM]

Solo her. Leaving the other hounds at home occasionally won't kill them, and it'll give you the time to let the pup learn on it's own and see how she's really doing everything. That being said, with a 4 month old be reasonable with your expectations.

BiL

[Joeyman]

I'll try and solo her but sometimes thats hard for me to do. I only have 2 days a week to run dogs I just hate to leave the others home. Once my young male pup starts I had planned on bracing him with lightning. I'll work on it. When she had first started I did solo her and I did brace her with a older hound.

I just don't understand why she won't go find her own dang rabbit. Is that something I did to her and I dont want to make that mistake again with my new pup.

Maybe I expect to much out of my dogs. I am always hard on them and Critique them to much. Lighting isn't even a year old yet. she's still a pup.

I just have in the back of my head that I want to see a dog do it all at a very young age. That is what my head is telling me.

[BCBeagles]

Solo her and she will take off looking for her own. It may not be the first time you take her, but walk her to places where you think she can jump an easy one.

As far as your little pup,IT IS ALL BORN IN THEM. You can ruin them by under exposing to good situations or poor use of a collar. Exposure and time are the only things
I have seen to make them figure it out. I am a believer that hounds have a switch in there head. When it flips on you go from there. Some never get the switch flipped
and probably did not have what it takes anyway. JMO. 4 months is little, he is out of good hounds he will be fine. I think there are very few pups today out of most lines that
will not do anything. Again, only my opinion, they all will not make great hounds, but most will run a little or hunt a little. Good luck!

[jdwiley]

Joey, I think you are in a similar situation I was in a couple years ago! I got a female that hunts her guts out! One of the hardest I ever owned! She would not go hunt on her own when she was younger,she would hunt hard with other dogs but not by herself. She stayed close while soloing and did hunt but I wanted her to range out so I put a young pup down with her,she still had to do all the work and the pup got experience too! It worked out as a win-win for me! The pup started at 6 mo. old and she gained more independence out of it.
But back to the original post,I think it is absolutely born in them! They either have it or not. Some dogs just dont have the desire to get in there and root em out,whether you work em or not!
I know its hard to leave em at home but you got to sometimes. Heck,even if you put them down for an hour or 2 and then roll the rest out,thats better than nothing! Good luck with the pup!

[ddetar00]

IMO... 4 months is a little young to expect any more that you have seen thus far. He/She will wonder off... follow the hounds they are familiar with, out of curiosity of what they are smelling sniff as well. It has been my experience (thus far) that once they strike,,, the pup being uncertain as to what he /she has just done to cause such a ruckus, will seek your security.

I have a 9 month ol Branko pup that just opened for her first time a few weeks ago. Then went into heat so all has been on hold since. But the first 3 or 4 times out she acted the very same way... unsure as to go with the pack, stay with me etc.

I also have a 8 month old Blue tick... first time out she went with the hounds and worked a feed line... did not speak... but you could tell her nose was telling her where to go. Again, once the race got heated and the hounds were at full bawl... she came back to me. She wondered off and wound up bringing me three field mice during the race... so she was using the nose and the instinct to hunt. But sadly she is in full heat now and she will have to stay in.

my 6 month old Ripley, (Woodpont breeding), was out for her first time last weekend, she harked, she packed, she tongued a little.... when in check she worked it tight... as good as a debut as anyone could ask for.

So here I have three closely aged hounds, the younger showing the more aptitude, the older not so impressive. But thay are all from solid bloodlines that are noted for producing hard hunting hounds... it is repetition that will refine what they have inherited. Keep taking him out... you will see in a few more outings that he does not hang with you anymore.

[JackalNeck]

Born in them? Im not sure, i would say to some extent, like a fox, or anyother predator for that matter. But like other predators, they have to be trained by parents and practice. My 7 month old female did just as you are saying, i was running her solo. When she jumped some easy ones, and chased a couple, I think she relized and learned that the bunnies are in the brush. i'm not saying she a brush buster, but for 7 months old she's doing all right. i can see a difference every 1 or 2 times i take her out. I'm very pleased with her pregress, thats not to say sometimes I dont get pissed at her sometimes, but she's a pup yet. So to answer your question, I think some of it is born into them, and the rest is learned. When everything clicks for them, its like the weight of the world is lifted of your shoulders. Just my .02.

[engman99]

My opinion,they are either born with it or they aint. When it comes to hunt you can teach them not to do stuff,but you aint gonna teach them to do anything.
All you can do is expose them and mold them a little. You can teach them not to run deer,not to run squirrels,not to bark in the box,not to run off with dead rabbits,and a few other things you can teach them not to do.
Huntin' wise, if they aint got the drive to do it natural on their own then I aint gonna mess with them.

[big mike 50]

Joey, if I have read most of your posts correct you hunt quite some ways from your house and I understand not wanting the other dogs to have to sit and wait till next weekend to run. You could take the dogs and just run Lightning first for an hour or two and then dump in the other dogs after you give her some time to show you what you want to see. Something to think about. Hope it helps. As for the pup he is still young IMO give him time.

[Joeyman]

thanks for the idea's guys. I only have a two days a week to run dogs and I hate leaving my others behind. I think i'm going with the idea of running lightning solo for the first hour then come back to the truck and release the rest of them and see how that works out for me.


As far as my 4 month old male I am going to continue taking him out with the rest of my dogs. I did jump 3 seperate rabbits while walking thru brush while the rest of the pack was running one. I tried to put him on the rabbits I jumped and he had no clue what I wanted him to do....lol that was to be expected. I just don't like the fact that lightning wants to wait on the others to jump her that rabbit and I fear this will happen with my male pup. I don't want that to happen. So that is why i wonder if it was man made or born into them.

[Panther Creek]

My pup is pushin 5 months old & he's doing the same thing. I waited til after gun season to take him out huntin, so he's been out 3 times & has been spending more time away from me each time. He will join the big dogs for a short run sometimes, & then comes back. I just ignore him (just keep track of him) & let him be a pup. Yeah, he don't have a clue yet what all that sniffin & runnin around & barking is all about, but you can tell he's interested. I'm going to start workin with him with some rabbit scents & a dead rabbit drag to maybe get his nose in gear for recognizing that rabbit smell & maybe that will pop up for him in the wild. Now I have a 13 month old female that sight chased & opened at 5 months, & immediatly started runnin with the big dogs. She didn't hang around me one bit. The past month she has really come on- picking up checks, leading the pack sometimes-she's a very intence hunter. They're all individuals, & they'll all start different. I think it's born in them.

[yorkmtnbeagles]

when taking them out,i always wade out into the thick stuff,so they will follow,then just stand there.when moving around,go slow,give them time to stir around in there.this seems to work good at getting them used to getting in the thick stuff and searching....main thing is go slow,give them a chance to search,if you move to fast,theyll end up following you to much....ymb

[Bunnyblaster]

Joeyman, I didn't read every word of all the posts so forgive me if I'm repeating what someone already said. So far in my little bit of experience I think desire is born into them and can be nurtured but not created. I believe dogs are like people in the respect that some just have more ambition than others. So far from pups to adult dogs I've had everything from the busiest go getting brush buster to the dog that won't leave your feet until a rabbit is jumped by the other dogs. I think if it is in them then doing like was said earlier by finding some easy rabbits for your pup to jump will get it a good start in the right direction. It should only take a few times of this before he starts to put it together............thick brush and briars = rabbits!! The part that I struggle with sometimes is the age..........or maybe a better term, the maturity level at which a pup should no longer be milling around but headed to the briars looking for a rabbit. It has been a real learning experience for me with the few pups I've had so far to learn patience and to just watch. I try not to be too quick to "pull the trigger" so to speak and send them down the road. It may cost me some feed and time but I don't like to let them go too early and not give them a chance to improve in fairness to the dog.