What still constitutes a bloodline

[Bev]

You're probably right, jim...about the North vs. South thing. I'm sure the boys around Jackson, Mississippi would love to see Norwester's dogs run down there in July. If he wanted to fix his passport and make the trip, I'm sure they would cook him up a good mess of food for his trouble. Fortunately for them, they don't have subzero winters, and Norwester doesn't have average summer temps in the 90+.

Take us poor Hoosiers. We can't have specialist dogs. We are just far enough north that we can have -11 degree days in the winter, and just far enough south to have 90+ degree, high humidity days in the summer. If we want to run 'year 'round, our poor dogs have to be able to run both, with all those temps in between. (I borrowed some of Wildhare2's testosterone for that.)

So Norwester, you don't have to run in 35 below temps to kill hare. Ok.

[Dr. Chris]

They're probably not real prevalent down around Indy!! Please re-read my post it was below zero while I was running, ( that IS testosterone speaking) Kurt Robinson

Yea, but then things like this happens: One day a pack of females was running, when a blizzard came upon us very, very quickly. The dogs were stuck in the storm. We live quite far out, and there was no way of telling where they’d wind up. Once the storm subsided, horses were saddled, and Branko and a friend went looking for the dogs. They found some frozen to death, but also found where one dog had slept on top of one of the dead ones, then left when the snowing stopped. They followed her tracks and found Anna’s Ann. Another couple of hours later and she would have died also had she not been found. Branko tucked her into his jacket and brought her home. She stayed in the house by the woodstove for quite a while. Unfortunately some of her teats had frozen off. "Branko's Beagles {History}" Is a rabbit/hare race really worth that?

[jim matuszewski]

Touche' Bev awsome post on both ends of extreme running,BUT being a hoosier,or a badger like me, we run in more dirverse conditions in the midwest ,could be reason why lot of breeding is going twards midwest ,northern style dog??

[NorWester1]

You're probably right, jim...about the North vs. South thing. I'm sure the boys around Jackson, Mississippi would love to see Norwester's dogs run down there in July. If he wanted to fix his passport and make the trip, I'm sure they would cook him up a good mess of food for his trouble. Fortunately for them, they don't have subzero winters, and Norwester doesn't have average summer temps in the 90+.

Take us poor Hoosiers. We can't have specialist dogs. We are just far enough north that we can have -11 degree days in the winter, and just far enough south to have 90+ degree, high humidity days in the summer. If we want to run 'year 'round, our poor dogs have to be able to run both, with all those temps in between. (I borrowed some of Wildhare2's testosterone for that.)

So Norwester, you don't have to run in 35 below temps to kill hare. Ok.

I'm sure hot weather and swampers would be my Kryptonite, no question, the Mississippi boys can keep that stuff. Sounds dangerous, I don't think I'd want to risk heat stroke with my dogs. But to each his own right?

Nope don't have to run in -35 to kill hare and even though it had warmed up some by the time I hit the woods those hare were pretty safe anyway as it turns out

[Laneline]

Take us poor Hoosiers. We can't have specialist dogs. We are just far enough north that we can have -11 degree days in the winter, and just far enough south to have 90+ degree, high humidity days in the summer. If we want to run 'year 'round, our poor dogs have to be able to run both, with all those temps in between.

Here you go Bev, I thought you might enjoy this old, linebred “has been”. I’ll try to download one from 2 weeks ago when it was 10 degrees on “snow packed ice”, they do a lot better, but then again, the rabbit couldn’t fit in the palm of your hand, he was full grown. You recognize that “old” voice? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYnhiubTzlQ

[mybeagles]

Based on experience I dont buy anymore linebred or inbred dogs, but the second any of you figure out how to inbreed some nose into them so they can run good in the conditions talked about I will be first in line for one. My issue is not with the method but the results. Just to clarify , outcrossed hounds dont produce very many dogs with phenominal noses either. Maybe just a coincidence that the two I have owned were both outcrossed. One was a pup from the other. Not sure if its a one up. I will go where I percieve the best results.

Kurt, I believe I have a pup coming from Shooter, but I would still like one from the cross your making. Keep me posted! Greenbay Shooter is reported to be putting his big nose in pups. Guys up your way seem real satisfied.

Mybeagles

[Dr. Chris]

Based on experience I dont buy anymore linebred or inbred dogs, but the second any of you figure out how to inbreed some nose into them so they can run good in the conditions talked about I will be first in line for one. My issue is not with the method but the results. Just to clarify , outcrossed hounds dont produce very many dogs with phenominal noses either. I will go where I percieve the best results. Mybeagles

What? I am not sure what you’re looking for and I don’t think you do either. I’m not trying to sound rude, but you seem derogatory and negative about both out crossed and line bred dogs. There are many breeders out there that have what you describe, that is “no where to be found”. Pine Mt Beagles states that his dogs are “hare” bred and do fine in KY. I am sure he runs in diverse circumstances. Bev’s dog Ozzie, who is with Jim Lane, came from South TN and was trialed and hunted in GA, AL, TN in very hot dry conditions and then came north to the snow and ice and did fine in trials and gun hunting. Branko has many dogs competing in the deep south and are used for gun hunting and are very successful, and we know the conditions his dogs are run and hunted in. That’s just to name a few. It sounds like to me that you have had the misfortune of having a lot of guys culls passed on to you, or your not looking in the right places for dogs, or you are an extreme perfectionist and very picky, or all of the above. I think you can analyze and debate the “fun” right out of beagling for yourself. You don’t sound happy about beagling in general at all. I hope you find what you’re looking for.

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

Based on experience I dont buy anymore linebred or inbred dogs, but the second any of you figure out how to inbreed some nose into them so they can run good in the conditions talked about I will be first in line for one. My issue is not with the method but the results. Just to clarify , outcrossed hounds dont produce very many dogs with phenominal noses either. Maybe just a coincidence that the two I have owned were both outcrossed. One was a pup from the other. Not sure if its a one up. I will go where I percieve the best results.

Kurt, I believe I have a pup coming from Shooter, but I would still like one from the cross your making. Keep me posted! Greenbay Shooter is reported to be putting his big nose in pups. Guys up your way seem real satisfied.

Mybeagles

I had a big nosed dog like your looking for and practically gave her away. Too mouthy for my tastes...but to each his own.
When you boys that run on ice and extreme cold are able to consistantly breed dogs with the brains to shut up until the rabbit is produced let me know. I run in all weather conditions so I need a balance. It was -14 degrees here in Ohio the other morning and it gets in the 90's and dry in the summer. Then we get frost in the fall and early spring. Like Bev said, we get all weather conditions and if you run year round you need dogs that have nose, stamina and brains to run in the Midwest.

[mybeagles]

I know what Im looking for Dr. Chris and have found 2 out of about 200. Others I talk to have only ever had 1 and others never have had a dog with the ability we have discussed. I realize your a Dr. but that doesnt mean you know what Im looking for in a dog and I can assure you guys in KY are not breeding for the nose I am looking for.

Outcrossed dogs have produced the two great nosed hounds that I had as well as the others I have seen. My point was, they are not produced in high percentages regardless of the breeding method. If linbreeders or inbreeders start producing what I am looking for I will go that route, but to this point I have not seen it.

I appreciate the concern.

Mybeagles

[klrconcrete]

I appreciate every ones concern for the well being of my hounds, its very touching. If I waited for optimum conditions I would run about 10 days a year. Please come to the realization that each and every time we turn a hound loose good weather or bad, tracking system or not, it could very well be the last time we ever see it alive- or see it period for that matter. I end up leaving hounds in the woods more than once through out the year and my primary concern is predators not death from exposure. It sucks but it is a fact. I agree 100% about the extreme conditions in the Southern Hemisphere (my term for anything South of the Mackinac bridge basically) but how do you know that they are extreme if you wont run in them? Kurt Robinson

[wvduece]

Based on experience I dont buy anymore linebred or inbred dogs, but the second any of you figure out how to inbreed some nose into them so they can run good in the conditions talked about I will be first in line for one. My issue is not with the method but the results. Just to clarify , outcrossed hounds dont produce very many dogs with phenominal noses either. Maybe just a coincidence that the two I have owned were both outcrossed. One was a pup from the other. Not sure if its a one up. I will go where I percieve the best results.

Kurt, I believe I have a pup coming from Shooter, but I would still like one from the cross your making. Keep me posted! Greenbay Shooter is reported to be putting his big nose in pups. Guys up your way seem real satisfied.

Mybeagles

I had a big nosed dog like your looking for and practically gave her away. Too mouthy for my tastes...but to each his own.
When you boys that run on ice and extreme cold are able to consistantly breed dogs with the brains to shut up until the rabbit is produced let me know. I run in all weather conditions so I need a balance. It was -14 degrees here in Ohio the other morning and it gets in the 90's and dry in the summer. Then we get frost in the fall and early spring. Like Bev said, we get all weather conditions and if you run year round you need dogs that have nose, stamina and brains to run in the Midwest.

----------thats 2 of us i had a nice female she had it all but ?? brains she didnt know when to shut up there would be days she was what most would call a PERFECT DOG but certain days she just barked her head off my other dogs would check her out at first then just leave her they got to the point they wouldnt honer her but give her enuf time she would get a rabbit up n moving i guess she just had a big nose i couldnt stand that i finally just gave her away to a buddy he saidit didnt bother him boy it did me when my dogs barks i wanna be looking fora rabbit or flipping my saftey jb

[klrconcrete]

That is not too much nose- it is not being able to use it correctly, very common problem. Too much nose is not. Kurt Robinson

[Greg H]

Pine mtn. wrote:

I COULD NOT ANSWER ANY OF IT,UNLESS I KNEW A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THE BITCH LINE 64 HOUNDS IN A 5-GEN PED.

On the subject of the original post this is the most profound statement made in any of it. For this reason Rufus Stewart, Jimmie Abshire, Will Mason, Bobby Vest, Chad Blair, Lynn Perkins and many others I am sure are linebreeding/inbreeding and outcrossing the kinds of dogs that any of us would be proud to have in our kennels. On the subject if these dogs can get it done in the extremes, yes they can. I have seen it. If you call -2 with 20 mph winds in a foot of snow extreme. This same dog was running in Kentucky this past summer in 90 degrees and high humidity. And by the sounds coming thru my cell phone she was gettin it done pretty good. By the way, her littermates are not to shaby either.

[Bev]

Laneline Jim, thanks for posting the video of Ozzie. It's been a while since I heard that ol' boomer of a mouth, or had to cut him off and down him off a rabbit, lol. How could anyone not like that mouth -- he sounds so....serious, LOL. That dog is in heaven with you. I'm hoping one of these days when I'm better set to run dogs there will be some Oz pups out and about. Thanks again for what you do.

[Triple_S]

Well,.. Mis Bev i am proud to say ..
they WILL be some from both those dogs down here in
good ol' South East Missouri. i have talk with jim and when the hounds seal the deal.
i will have female pups from Ozzie an a male from Dingus and Ozzie's daughter.
and thus should be the foundation for my kennle.
a Big Thanks to Jim an Bev, and thanks fellow hounds men/women. i am on this site every day learning somthing new .
and may God bless each of you.
Steve