is it ok to breed the first heat

[Windkist]

Ok, Tim.. physically its probably not a problem. She's in heat, she's going to Ovulate and she can make puppies. Vets say go for it... however 80% or more of them get out of vet school without ever seeing a live whelping. They are lucky if they get to do a C-section and learn to revive puppies. This puppy hasn't had a chance to prove herself or grow up. I suppose it won't hurt anything other than a young bitch will have puppies. However, its my opinion..yes! MY OPINION that there is NOT a good enough reason to do it. No matter what would provoke someone to consider it.

Leah

[modock kennels]

why not just wait, its not that important to have pups off her right now anyways is it????

[tinymwoods]

Tim H,
Have you ever bred a 10 month old female? My friend had one accidently bred and she almost died. She also became depressed and was not worth a hoot for hunting after this. The whole idea of not wanting our daughters to get pregnant at 13 is because a 13 year old child is not physically or mentally able to cope with such things. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but why wuld you take the chance? If she is as good as he says (not doubting it), then he should not take any chances on messing her up right now. The same can be said for breeding a male too young. Alot of times it will give them a one track mind and be hard to convince them to worry about cottontails instead of doggy tails. Risking the life and abilities of a good young hound is not worth keeping a blood line alive or breeding to an old stud dog.

I got this from edogadvice.com:
"Where as in case of female dogs, do miss the first heat that occurs at sixth month and breed the female dog during the occurrence of second heat. It is better to have dog breeding at 1½ to 2 years age because in this dog breeding age only, there will be adequate development of gonads in the pelvic cavity of body."

I am not willing to risk my healthy young female for pups and I am glad to see alot of others feel the same way.

This is from AKC's website:
"Bitches have their first estrus (also know as season or heat) after six months of age, although it can occur as late as 18 months to two years of age. Estrus recurs at intervals of approximately six months until late in life. During estrus, the female is fertile and will accept a male. The bitch should not be bred during her first season.

Keep in mind that AKC Rules do not allow, except with special documentation, the registration of a litter out of a dam less than 8 months or more than 12 years of age at the time of mating, or by a sire less than 7 months or more than 12 years of age at the time of mating."

[Tim H]

By the tone some of these posts are taking, I will just research this further myself rather than offend people. Thank You.

[jogletree]

It doesn't affect all females the same way as posted above. I bred my female on her first heat cycle, but it was about 12 months when she came in. My intentions were based on the fact that at that age she was a really sound female. Also, the male was getting older and was an even better hound than her. For the record, she was AKC registered and he was a grade hound, but a darn good one. She whelped 8 healthy puppies by herself during the night at 63 days on the nose in June here in Georgia! She raised all eight of them with no problems. We kept four of the pups and only one of those turned out to be a dud (pretty little lemon female). I now only have one of them and he is the spitting image of his parents both looks and conformation and running ability. As for the female, she never missed a step in developing as a rabbit dog. Matter of fact, she just certified for her PP Rabbit Champion and she hasn't turned three yet. I couldn't be more pleased with her. NOW, as to the subject of this debate, would I do it again; probably not. I have found this site and others to be quite helpfull and educational in dealing with our hounds. I understand the logic and thoughts of everyone who has posted not to breed that early. Like I said, I most likely would not do it again, but it did work for her that one time with no ill side effects. That is not to say that all young females will react this well, but that is my experience on this subject. By the way, when she comes in on her next heat cycle in another month or so, I will be breeding her again with even bigger hopes for the pups based on her and the stud I have picked out for her.

[T Hynes]

By the sound of it you are prety much set on breeding her no matter what advice is given to you, it is your choice but if you ask don't get upset if it isn't the answer you wanted to hear, they are just giving you their oppinion

[Beagled1]

At 9-10 months old you sure can know what the mothers potential is as far as performance and conformation. You never know what a mothers potential is to be a good mother until you have the first litter. I will give you that the odds might increase with age but that's not for sure either.

Let's say that's true - that she's become an outstanding hound and potentially one of the OPs best. That still does not justify breeding a puppy! I don't know why this has even sparked such a heated debate - there should be no question that a 10 month old puppy is not ready to be bred despite the fact she has working ovaries. First, we have the issue of the bitch's well being. Take it from a woman - pregnancy is taxing on the body. It depletes nutrients, and even on the best of diets, deficiencies can occur, especially if the litter is large. Lactation is what really takes the most toll on a bitch. Consider you have a pup that is not even fully grown - @ 10 months it's very likely the growth plates (on the dam) have not even completly fused yet. Up until their first year, they still require diets a bit higher in protein/calcium fo properly nourish their own body. This bitch shouldn't even be off puppy food yet & the nourishment her growing body needs is being depleted on a litter of pups.
Then you have the genetic health factor. As I mentioned, certain genetic problems generally show up in adolescence. You can take the chance of breeding the bitch, and have her come down with a problem 6 months later. Is that improving the breed?

If the stud is getting up in age and you think that it is the best stud for breeding to this bitch, is your evidence really so strong that it really supports abandoning the breeding?

If that's the case, why not just store frozen semen? Or do a natural breedign but wait another 6 months until the bitch is physically/mentally more capable of carrying and caring for the litter.

I know there are a lot of people who are stating that it is never OK to breed on the first heat cycle, I would just like some hard evidence that supports the position. What you have given me are your thoughts on it and not evidence. I'm not saying your thoughts are not valid, I do appreciate them, they just aren't evidence of the negative results of breeding on the first heat cycle.

The fact of the matter is that it cannot be scientifically proven that breeding the first heat will cause irreprable damage. It very well can, but you won't see hard evidence as the effects of this won't be noticable for years. Breeding on the first heat is not advised because of the afformentioned health issues that could crop up with the bitch in adolescence, the toll it could take on her body, and the fact that young hounds do fizzle out sometimes, and the change could be drastic. A stellar hound in his first season might turn out to be garbage the next. Which is why you won't find anyone reputable endorsing the practice. It's basically what a puppy mill will do, breed them on the first heat, keep on breeding ... I don't understand if the OP's bitch is so good, why doesn't he allow her to mature, and enjoy her for at least a season or two before breeding her?

[Tim H]

T Hynes, it is not my female that this post is about. I have never met the person who asked the original question. So your assumption is wrong. I was only asking people to support their position so I could form my own opinion from a point of knowledge and not just accept everything said simply because it was the majority who said it.

[tinymwoods]

very well put Beagled1. I believe the person who posted the topic said he was not going to breed her. All of us learned from others about the "ins and outs" of dogs at one time or another. I think it was a good question and I am glad so many people were able to give thier thoughts so others could benefit. I stated mine, and I am glad others did as well. The best way to learn is to ask, and this board is full of people with alot of knowledge. Scientific evidence is hard to come by, but experience is even harder to gain.

Tim H., I am glad you want to look into it further, and I hope you find some good answers that may help you make dicisions in the future, what ever they may be. There is probably not a right or wrong answer, just some people who have been around hounds a while stating what they believe.

I also belive that before any breeding, you should get your hound checked by the vet to ensure that she is healthy enough to have puppies and a negative brucelas test (even if breeding inside your own kennel). These are responsiblities we all have as people who love our hounds.

I appologize if I seemed hostile, but I am an animate person, and I speak strongly of my opinion. I did not mean to offend.

[Tim H]

beagled1, I believe the reason there was a heated debate is because yours is the first post with some solid evidence to support the position. I believe you have made some strong points that are based on facts and sound reasoning.

However, you still concede this point

The fact of the matter is that it cannot be scientifically proven that breeding the first heat will cause irreparable damage.

There still was no reason for the debate to be heated. I asked questions that were sound and people became defensive when they couldn't answer them with anymore than it was their opinion. I think the statement about the growth plates and nutritional needs of the female are good enough reasoning to be very hesitant about breeding a young female. Is there a reference you could share that addresses this in regards to pregnancy? I would be interested in learning more about what effects this would have on a young female.

[T Hynes]

Sorry Tim H I thought it was your post since you were so involved on the topic and wanted to look elsewhere for advice my mistake

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

LOL. This was no heated debate and I never read one post that indicated that it was. We are not always going to agree on everything. That does not mean anyone is mad... annoyed maybe. Maybe we should use these more often
If you want to see heated debates you don't have to look very far on the first page.

[Tim H]

I used one of these on page 2. Probably should try to use at least one per page. So count this one for page 3. I'll owe one for page one and try to take care of that on the next thread that I post on.

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

Maybe we should use these more often

[Briarhoppers]

No - too young, wait till their 2nd or 3rd cycle...and make sure you like how they run and think they are going to improve your stock.
-pete