Why are pups so hard to raise anymore....

[oakhill]

There are several unknowns that may cause a pup to die. Too cold, too hot, not enough milk, too much milk, mom lays on one, and on and on and on. Sometimes we just can't figure out what the problem is. One time I was having trouble with pups and I talked to my vet. He said there could be an unknown infection being passed around from dog to dog in the kennel and since they were older and had a good immune system I might not see any symptoms but would kill a pup. So, I put all my dogs on Amoxicillin and that seemed to take care of the problem. I have heard of where the dam has bad milk which will kill the pups. Also there is Fading puppy syndrone. If the dam had been mine I would have put her on Amoxicillin when she first started loosing pups. I had a dog whelp this spring and she lost 3 and I put her on Amoxi and I never lost another.

Check this out.

Fading Puppy Syndrome
Fading Puppies.

By John Kohnke BVSc RDA. Consultant to Vetsearch International


Some puppies, despite adequate feed, do not thrive and as a result grow
poorly. They often suffer from a variety of digestive upsets and respiratory
problems as part of their general ill-thrift condition. Sometimes the failure
to thrive can affect a single pup in a litter, or, in more severe cases, a
number of puppies will develop what is often termed "fading puppy syndrome",
and die within 5 - 10 days.

Many of these puppies are vigorous and healthy at birth, but within 2-10 days
lose their interest in nursing. They often"cry" in a monotonous way as though
they are in pain or discomfort. They lose body weight, crawl into corners
away from the rest of the litter and die, despite careful nursing.

A normal puppy will sleep most of the time until it is 3-4 weeks of age. Most
puppies will suckle, sleep and may crawl over each other during the first 2-3
weeks. If a pup does not do this it should be carefully examined. Most new
born puppies up to 3-4 days of age, will curl up when placed belly up on the
palm of the hand. After this time and up until about 3 weeks of age, a
healthy puppy will stretch out when picked up and lift its legs up. Any puppy
that does not show this response, should be treated as being abnormal, or
having some sort of nervous condition, or likely to have "fading puppy
syndrome".

The common term, "fading puppy syndrome", describes the symptoms, rather than
an actual or separate disease, in young puppies. Affected young puppies are
generally less active, lack vitality, and often fade away, and finally die
within 2-3 weeks of birth. They often fail to gain body weight in proportion
to their age and their litter mates, despite appearing to suckle well and
consume part of their special puppy food, e.g.. Farex and milk, from the
first week of age. In most cases, fading puppies will suffer a low-grade
infection with a virus or bacterial germ. However, occasionally, failure to
thrive can be due to inborn metabolic errors, from a genetic or development
abnormality, or other internal digestive malfunction in the young puppy.
Puppies that seem normal at birth but rapidly deteriorate within the first
2-4 days, are most likely to have a bacterial infection, which can cause them
to lose interest in nursing and deteriorate from the first day of birth.
Usually, these puppies die within the first 2-5 days after birth, although
some may linger on, depending on the amount of nursing and any other type of
therapy that is given.

Bacterial Germ Infection: Bacterial germs can gain entry in the womb birth
canal or through the navel stump. However, in most cases, it is thought that
the bitch herself carries the infection in her womb prior to birth, and the
Staph, Strep, and E-Coli germs contaminate the pup's digestive system and
blood. In severe cases, the contamination can be spread as the bitch licks
her new-born puppies to warm and clean them after birth. In sever cases,
puppies that are born small and weak may already be infected by the germs
that build up in the womb, because of a low-grade infection in the uterine
horns themselves. Most of the puppies that develop a severe sepicaemic
infection during the first 2-4 days of birth usually are born healthy. They
are initially active, but start to deteriorate within the first 12-24 hours.
As compared with a viral infection, which occurs at a later stage from 1-2
weeks of age, puppies with a bacterial infection, which occurs at a later
stage between 1-2 weeks of age, puppies with a bacterial infection, usually
lose condition and appetite within a few hours. The most significant sign is
swelling and distension of the belly. The navel cord often becomes more
prominent and reddened due to infection.

Young puppies do not have a lot of reserves, and infection quickly sets up a
lethal toxic reaction. It is essential to get them to your vet as soon as
possible so that suitable antibiotic treatment, usually Lincomycin, can be
given. The naval stump should be treated with antiseptics, such as a weak
iodine solution, to dry it out and reduce the risk of it maintaining an
active route of infection.

Proper nursing to ensure that the puppies are kept warm and fed with bottles
will help to increase the chance they will recover. However, it is most
important not to waste time hoping the puppies will get better and improve.
You must recognize the problem as soon as possible, particularly if a puppy
starts to fade and develop a bloated tummy, and promptly seek advice from
your et. Some breeders separate affected puppies away from the other ones so
that they do not have a chance of spreading any infection on their skin and
naval cords as the bitch licks them and transfers it to the other puppies.
However, again your vet will give you advice on the best way to manage the
sick puppies.

Viral Problems:: In most cases, the range of normal canine viruses that are
present in the environment can affect the young, new-born puppy. The bitch
herself may be immune, but the puppies can be susceptible, depending on their
colostrum intake. studies earlier in Australia have shown that the Canine
Herpes Virus, a flu-like virus,can be a cause for fading puppy syndrome, with
typical signs of lethargy, crying, and oozing of mucus exudates from the nose
and eyes. It is most commonly observed in puppies in a crowded nursing area.
Usually, puppies are affected under one week of age and die over a two-three
week period. Although some puppies may die within 12-24 hours of becoming
less active, others may linger on, depending on the amount of nursing and
care given to support them. However, on post mortem, most puppies that die
show bleeding of the liver surface and also often haemorrhages and bluish
congestion in the bowels. The kidneys may also lose colour, feel soft and
mushy and have internal haemorrhages throughout the cut surface.
Diagnosis of this type is obviously a job for your vet, and this can help
confirm that sickness is caused by a virus present in the kennel group.
Unfortunately, if a virus is suspected, there is no targeted treatment
available, and supportive therapy and good nursing is the only way to help a
puppy fight the viral disease. Often the weaker and smaller puppies in a
litter are the first to fade.

Support Theraphy:If given early enough, a course of antibiotics over 5-7 days
can help to delay the onset of secondary bacterial infection of viral damaged
tissue in the lungs, gut or liver. However, the most effective supportive
therapy, is to give an injection of blood serum from another healthy animal.
Collection of the blood and preparation of the serum is a job strictly for
your vet. It is best to allow your vet to take a blood sample from a dog that
has been boosted recently. Alternatively, one that has a full vaccination
course with regular annual boosters against the common viral infections that
affect dogs, can be used a s a donor. The bitch herself can be used as a
serum donor if she has been vaccinated during pregnancy, and some of the
weaker pups did not suckle enough colostrum to give them adequate protection
in the first place. However, if the bitch was not vaccinated, or her puppies
have received adequate colostrum, and still fade, then she may have low blood
antibody levels herself. he would not be a suitable donor in this case.

Various other studies have suggested that puppies may be infected by a bitch
that has not been vaccinated regularly. The virus localises and spreads
through the membranes during the whelping process, or by inhalation of the
virus after birth as the puppies are licked by their mother, or become
contaminated in a heavily crowded puppy area. It is important therefore, to
ensure the bitch is given a booster "4 in 1 shot" at between 4 to 6 weeks
prior to whelping (no later). Consult your own vet on the best vaccine type
and combination to use. Nowadays, with a wide range of excellent vaccines
available, a planned vaccination program carried out during pregnancy, can
help to boost the immunity passed in the colostrum, or first milk, against
common viruses. Most puppies that suckle strongly will take in enough
colostrum antibodies to protect them against minor viral infections during
the first 2-3 weeks of age.

Maintain Warmth:It is most important of course to keep puppies warm for the
first week to ten days of age. During this time they rely on external warmth
to keep them warm, either from the bitch curled up around them, or the
bedding. If puppies are not gaining weight and suckling properly, then they
should be considered to be abnormal and require investigation. Most health
young puppies will double their birth weight in the first 7 to 10 days of
birth and then double it again within the next three weeks. Normally, younger
puppies have a lower body temperature of 36.5 -37 degrees C., which begins to
increase after the first two weeks of age. This is because puppies lose a lot
of heat into the environment, and their body temperature is lower. Once they
start to generate their own heat from metabolism, and can shiver from about
two weeks of age, they maintain a higher body temperature of 37.5-38 degrees
C.

It is always a good idea to nurse young puppies that are sick by keeping them
in a warm area, as cold conditions weaken their resistance when exposed to
chilling. If they move away from a warming light overnight, or crawl away
from the rest of the puppy group, it will increase the cold stress and hasten
the onset of their deterioration. Lack of adequate nest bedding and a
protected area for the bitch, also increases the risk of fading puppy
syndrome, particularly during the colder months. Besides ensuring young
puppies, weak or less active ones in particular, are kept warm,attentive
nursing of sick or fading puppies is paramount to their chance of recovery.
Loss of body heat and chilling is a common reason for rapid decline in sick
puppies. Their large body surface relative to their size, with little hair to
insulate against heat loss, increases the risk of hypothermia as they fade.

Monitor Floor Temperature:Purchase an accurate household room thermometer and
place it at the level of the bedding, obviously protected from accidental
damage as the bitch moves around. It is important to monitor the temperature
bedding level, as this is likely to be the coolest area. Warm air rises, and
even if there is a warm zone at our head height, it may be colder at floor
level. Do not over-heat puppies with infra-red lamps. For the first week of
life, maintain floor temperature at 30 degrees C., and at about 25-27 degrees
C. for older puppies. Adjust heat lamps or Column oil-filled heaters to
maintain this temperature range, especially overnight. Your vet will give you
specific nursing advice for very sick puppies. However, it is essential that
you give therapy at timed intervals, and complete the course of treatment,
even if puppies recover and regain their strength and vitality.

Maintain Fluids and Energy:Pupies that are under stress of disease, or are
losing body weight, have a much better chance of recovery if they are given
fluids to prevent dehydration. It is best to give fluids warmed to body heat.
This is best gauged by adding clean, warm water until drops of the fluid
placed on the bare skin the underside of your wrist do not feel cold or hot.
Although a sugar solution, to provide energy and fluids, made up by adding
one and one half teaspoons of glucose per 100ml of boiled water (seven and
one half percent glucose), is the optimum concentration. It is best to
provide electrolytes as well with the glucose drink. A rehydration fluid,
such as Recharge is ideal, as it contains glucose and electrolytes in the
combined formulation. However, it must be diluted before giving to puppies
and extra glucose must be added.

This is the recipe- Keep it filed away in case you ever need it !

Add 5ml of "Recharge" to 100ml(about half a cupful) of boiled water that has
been cooled to blood heat. Mix 5g (one teaspoonful) of glucose powder into
the 100ml of made up Recharge. Stir well and ensure it is at blood
temperature before feeding. This energy and electrolyte solution can be given
with a small nursing bottle and teat to puppies that can still suckle, or
with an eye dropper to puppies that are too weak.. I normally recommend that
you carefully pick up the puppy by wrapping it in a small towel-type face
washer and gently hold it with its head upright when giving it the
rehydration mixture. After the puppy has been given the mixture, it will
normally want to sleep. Place it back gently in a warm place, still wrapped
in the face washer, with its head out.

As a guide, puppies should be given about 10-15ml of the mixture per 100g of
body weight over a 24 hour period, or roughly 5ml(I teaspoonful) per 100g
bodyweight very 6-8 hours.

It is important to consult your vet immediately, if a puppy develops diarrhea
or becomes dehydrated and less active, despite your expert nursing care.=

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Raising a sorry momma's pup on a bottle, though she may be good in the field, she is not a good mother. A breeder should look at all things in a dog with performance being a major player but not the only thing that defines breedable.

Whenever I have bottle fed it has been to supplement a "runt" which otherwise might not have survived. The people that own these TWO pups (out of close to 40 that I have whelped or co-bred) thank me all the time for taking the time to save their much loved pet.
There are a lot of different circumstances where a pup may deserve some extra attention that need to be taken into consideration.

[marr24]

Nice post Ked- I agree.

[S.R.Patch]

This is good info to prove puppies should be whelped & raised well away from the main pack.
Our last litter was whelped and raised UP hill about 100yds, behind the barn, where no hounds had been kept for the last 7 years.
Last week when the weather cooled, they found another box in the pen that had straw in it. They left their open front, bare wood floor box they were whelped in and made a change to this box with bedding tho it is a climb up, all on their own, smart little whips..
They've learned well how to find any gap or hole in the fence to get to where they want, should be a useful trait in hunting fence rows they will have already mastered...
These pups bring back alot of memories of pups I had back when I was a boy...
ps...I never had a pup I had to coddle along make good in the end. That stuff is best left to children's bed time stories...

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Dear Patch,
I just have to say "different strokes for different folks" We are raising beagles with different end goals in mind so we are going to have different ways of doing things. I don't think either end goal is necessarily better or worse than the other. I'm not raising hunters since I'm not interested in having more housework skinning up rabbit's for dinner. But I'd eat one if you cooked it for me
I like the pretty, well socialized, show/pet beagles and sell 90% of my pups to pet homes. Raising them in the home works better for my end goal and saving a little guy puts more money in my pocket, not to mention it just feels good.
Personally I really LOVE venison so it's a good thing I'm not hunting deer with beagles cuz then you guys would probably really pick on me, lol.

[NorWester]

Honeypot wrote,

Also, someone please explain to me how beating a dog that ran a deer teaches him/her not to run deer??? I think the dog only understands that when he returns to Master he gets a beating. How do you think the dog knows what you are beating him for so "after the fact."???

This certainly is off the original topic and I'm not trying to take a jab at you here but to even begin to understand you need to be out running your dogs first. That said the idea of whipping a dogs ass AFTER he has returned to you IS ridiculous as you are elluding to. However, in most cases dogs that are running deer are heading out of the country and are long gone and DON'T return to you, otherwise the issue wouldnt need to be addressed with such urgency. In this day and age most rely on the e-collar to correct such behavior and it's done while you can catch the dog in the act/in progress of running trash. Like wise before the introduction of such technology oldtimers used the hands on application of "chain breaking" which amounted to walking your hound in on a, lets say deer track for the sake of debate but one could substitute any track thought undisireable, on a long small chain tied to your waist. When the dog would attempt to take the track you'd whip the hell out of him/her till the dog won't leave your side, praising the dog while it is glued to your leg and correcting when it trys to take the trash track. This certainly is not pleasant to watch.......but it works as I've witnessed it first hand. The bottom line is that it's a trade off, the dog has to endure the "correction" and in turn you get a trained dog and that amounts to a life saving technique. Doubt it? Ask how many hound owners have lost dogs to a trash race and never saw that dog alive again. Like it was related to me, putting the dog thru a few moments of intense discomfort is surely better than the dog getting lost or killed as a result of having never gone to the trouble to break the hound properly.

[ked]

woops hit it twice.

[ked]

Raising a sorry momma's pup on a bottle, though she may be good in the field, she is not a good mother. A breeder should look at all things in a dog with performance being a major player but not the only thing that defines breedable.

Whenever I have bottle fed it has been to supplement a "runt" which otherwise might not have survived. The people that own these TWO pups (out of close to 40 that I have whelped or co-bred) thank me all the time for taking the time to save their much loved pet.
There are a lot of different circumstances where a pup may deserve some extra attention that need to be taken into consideration.

Congradulations! You saved two runts that became someone's beloved pets. That is great. It is obvious that you are an over abundant animal lover and that is great. Now if we can look past the salvation of these great animals and look at the point that was made in my post you can understand what I am getting at and that it is not a jab at saving puppies. I have saved or tried to save a number of them myself.

Those two runts that you saved did not have the vigor of life to survive. Now let me state that if the runt or small of a litter makes it at my place (on its own) I am keeping it. Because it has a strong vigor. What I am saying is those pups that did not have enough heart, drive, desire, vigor or whatever someone would like to title will not be considered for breeding by me. I may hunt the hair off of them. But they lacked something which to me is a detrimental flaw that should not be carried on or passed down. I think their papers should be marked where they can not be bred or at least their pups can not be registered. Let them live full lives but not in the breeding pen.
Now if my daughter accidentally dropped one or a pup got stuck in the birth canal and their gyp dies then the pups are typically not to blame for things like that because things happen. What I am saying is that a breeder should be as responsible as they can to breed for healthy, strong, using dogs. Part of that is knowing that a dog as a pup had the will to survive. That is hard for a beginer especially if the previous breeder did not watch for these traits. I think this is more essential now than ever with all the complications dogs can have now and I am not sure some of those complications are not due to what we, me included, has chosen to breed.
It will take a bit but some day I hope everything in my kennel was born there and I know the whole history of that dog. From conception to finish. These are things I have started considering and believe will be helpful to the future of my dogs life and lineage.

[S.R.Patch]

Dearest Honey,
We don't mean to pick on you but remember, you are gracing a hunting board. We all love you dearly and hope you will come to see the real purpose of the "hunting beagle" and it's main intent...

As for me, my feeling is, when I come to the end of the trail, I hope to be able to hand over hounds, that those who follow will be able to take and say, "He done some good with these hounds, they have strong constitutions, they whelp us strong litter, but mostly, what's been born in the bone can't be whipped out, they have the damest desire to hunt...

When you come to the end, what do you hope to have gained so other may enjoy?

ps...hunting deer with hounds was the sport of Kings in our beginning...

[DedRabbits]

ked wrote

What I am saying is that a breeder should be as responsible as they can to breed for healthy, strong, using dogs. Part of that is knowing that a dog as a pup had the will to survive. That is hard for a beginer especially if the previous breeder did not watch for these traits. I think this is more essential now than ever with all the complications dogs can have now and I am not sure some of those complications are not due to what we, me included, has chosen to breed.

Now I am not a beagle breeder and I don't have plans to raise a litter for a while yet, but an interesting subject was brought up, and I was wondering if any of you folks thought the way ked does? Can continuous linebreeding or inbreeding cause complications in puppies? I would think inbreeding could cause more trouble, but like I stated earlier, I haven't raised any puppies so I don't know. Could outcrossing a little more make healthier pups? I know most people like what they have, and outcrossing may not necessarily enhance most breeding programs.

[NorWester]

It's not line breeding or inbreeding per say, its what you're linebreeding or inbreeding or even outcrossing for that matter. The style of breeding is of less importance than the selection of the individuals used.

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Ked wrote: "What I am saying is those pups that did not have enough heart, drive, desire, vigor or whatever someone would like to title will not be considered for breeding by me. I may hunt the hair off of them. But they lacked something which to me is a detrimental flaw that should not be carried on or passed down. I think their papers should be marked where they can not be bred or at least their pups can not be registered. Let them live full lives but not in the breeding pen."

I agree with you 100%. My PETS get sold with limited registration. The two pups I saved are both spay/neutered pets. You would never know they were runts looking at them now either. But no, neither was ever intended as breeding stock.

S.R. Patch...I hope to leave behind a legacy/line of well built hounds with
superb temperments that can be trained to do whatever activities their owners desire. If they want hunting dogs they can breed back to that or buy one of yours

[oakhill]

You line breed or in breed long enough you will end up with a bunch of idiot dogs with lots of health problems and physical defects. It is a scientific genetic fact.

[bill (flint river )]

You line breed or in breed long enough you will end up with a bunch of idiot dogs with lots of health problems and physical defects. It is a scientific genetic fact.

i agree 100%

[DRamey]

Cindy, I remember this being mentioned a year or so ago but don't remember your reply. Are or have there been any of your hounds in homes that hunt them or otherwise put them in the field? Just curious as to what style in the field that they may have if so.