what would you do?

ackermanich · Post by **ackermanich** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:25 pm

This post is not intended to degrade anyone . no clinics or dogs names will be mentioned . This post is intended for feedback to see if i am on the right path. Anyhow on9-13-07 i took my bred female who is due oct.16 to the vet because she had a lump on her stomach. The vet took 2cc of fluid off the lump and was unable to determine exactly what it was. He told me it was a possible tumor/cyst and that they could not do anything for her because she was pregnant. His instructions were to take her home and after she had her pups bring her back and they would remove the tumor and send it out for biopsy. On9-21-07 I called the vet to discuss the dogs condition , i explained that her appetite had decreased. Again i was told ther was nothing they could do for her because she is pregnant ,with the exception of antiobiotics.So she was started on the antiobiotic clavamox. On 10-5-07 called vet again to try to schedule an appt. they did not have an opening. By this time she had totally stopped eating. Instructions from the vet were to withold food for twelve hours then start a diet of boiled rice . The vet said this was typical of a pregnant female. Anyhow i knew i had to do something so i scheduled an appt. with another vet office . Upon examination with the second vet ,his findings were that she had a hernia. He explained that a pup had actually filled thearea of the hernia, and the oxygen supply had been cut off to the pups and that they were dead. The result would be emergency surgery to remove the dead pups and the deadly toxins that were filling her uterus.Also this would be vital in saving the mothers life.Also discussed was the value of the mother as a breeding animal or a pet , due to the fact that her uterus could be destroyed from the toxins. The vet performed the surgery and found his initial diagnosis to be exact and the dead puppies were removed. He said the uterus looked good but could not guarantee her as a breeding animal the vet also told me if i would have brought her to the office three weeks earlier he could have removed the hernia, and she could have easily went on to deliver a healthy litter. He told me that he removed a hernia from a pregnant beagle about a month ago and she delivered a healthy litter with no problems. My value with this female is as a breeding animal she is an akc.fc. and has produced some akc. fc. My problem is this did not have to happen I feel i should not have to pay for someones lack of knowledge. I have money invested in breeding this female i have 4 different vet bills and i have took a total loss AND the female isn't out of the woods yet she isn't eating yet Anyhow Am i wrong or am i right to feel the first vet is liable your input would be appreciated

wvduece · Post by **wvduece** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:33 pm

i think you are absolutly right i think the first vet should be held responsibil for the who thing loss of the litter as well talk to a good lawyer before ya do or say anything else jb

Triple L Beagler · Post by **Triple L Beagler** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:57 pm

i would hold them responsible too.

LR Patch · Post by **LR Patch** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:29 pm

I'm on your side brother , but a misdiagnosis by a vet I'd say wouldn't hold up in court.(JMOP) I'd give him or her a ear full for piece of mind but I think you would just be sinking more money into a sinking boat for a lawyer , but you can most time get a free consultation with one.

TomMN · Post by **TomMN** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:41 pm

You may not want to hear this but you asked...

My value with this female is as a breeding animal

Hernias are hereditary, I would never breed this female again. If you want to know her value for breeding, add up all you made on this litter and then subtract the vet bills and other expenses.

Vets are like doctors, some are much better than others. I would chalk this up to part of the cost of getting an education in breeding beagles (and a small part at that) and move on.

Tim H · Post by **Tim H** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:29 pm

I'd lean towards what TomMN said. Chalk it up to an education to always get a second opinion right away. As harsh as this may sound, the courts don't really put much value on any dog. Usually the most you could get is the price you paid for the dog and that's if it died because of negligence. Cut your losses where they are now.

I would go talk to the other vet and calmly let him know what happened and that you assume that, in light of what has happened you will not be charged for his services. It may or may not work but the vet is actually your best chance to have the charges dropped. I know you aren't going to like this but it is the truth and reality that you are facing. Hope it works out for you and I hope the female has a full recovery.

arkyhunter · Post by **arkyhunter** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:39 pm

I feel for you, man. There is no substitute for getting a second opinion. I do agree however that it would probably be very hard for you to get a judgement against a vet due to misdiagnosis. Like some of the others said, i would chalk it up to experience and now you know which vet to use from now on. Vets are only human, yet my problem with this vet is that they didn't really try to do something to help you. At least you didn't lose the female. Good luck with this!

ackermanich · Post by **ackermanich** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:02 pm

[quote="TomMN"]You may not want to hear this but you asked...

My value with this female is as a breeding animal

Hernias are hereditary, I would never breed this female again. If you want to know her value for breeding, add up all you made on this litter and then subtract the vet bills and other expenses.

Vets are like doctors, some are much better than others. I would chalk this up to part of the cost of getting an education in breeding beagles (and a small part at that) and move on /quote] ( First of all not all hernias are hereditary. It was not evident she had a hernia until after the fact she was bred. Her value of breeding is in the eye of the beholder. It's hard to put a price on life . Like i said in the first post none of the pups lived so i will not be making one cent . I wouldn't base breeding values on vet bills and expenses. This female has been bred two times with no complications. I agree some vets are better than others but i shouldn't have to chalk this up due to his lack of education . If i pay for a service i expect satisfaction I understand people make mistakes. The first strike was a missed diagnosis the second strike was telling me nothing can be done for her because she was pregnant. It's like wanting my car painted red and they paint it green and i have to go somewhere else to get it fixed. I feel i am a reasonable person I don't even know that i hold the vet responsible for the loss of the litter, because she could have had 10 or she could have had one and that's counting your chickens (beagles) before they hatch . Who knows how many could have died naturally. but i do feel the vet isresponsible for anything that didn't have to happen. or any loss i occured . Anyhow thanks for your comments

NoBull · Post by **NoBull** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:11 pm

I am not sure legally what you can do I do not think you are being unreasonable by no means I personally agree that no price could replace some of my dogs to me some are more then just pets they are hunting buddys that you can always count on maybe I am just an old softy but I would be torn up if something like this happened to one of' my dogs because it would be like one of my friends losing a baby. The only problem with this which you may have to discuss with a civil courts lawyer is you have to convince a judge of her and the puppys value to you not only as they're monetary value but as well as they're future potential which depending on the judge may be hard or easy you may get a judge that only see's dogs as pets that can be replaced with a trip to the pound or you may get someone who grew up with hunting dogs completely understands and makes the whole process quick as possible my sugestion would be get a free consultation and see if you have a case then find yourself one hell of a lawyer and go for it if you are sure your up for it.

Again I am truly sorry to hear about what happened and I wish you the best of luck please let me know how things turn out.

beagler111 · Post by **beagler111** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:59 am

I think the money you paid to the first vet should be refunded. This vet has a history of misdiagnosis, I lost a good puppy by their sloppiness they are hiring to many young vets right out of school with no expierence.
I know a lot of people might not want to breed a female with a hernia but maybe you should give a little more history.
She is 8 years old, has had 2 litters before with no problems. She has been hunted all her life ,is a AKC FC has never shown any health issues before. She has produced multiple FC and none of them has ever shown any hernia problems. I guess I would take a chance. I also still want a pup if you get her rebred.
I know how disappointed you must be, how much time and money have been invested. Keep me posted on her progress.

ackermanich · Post by **ackermanich** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:26 pm

Well things didn't go so good, after a day or two i had to take her back to the vet she still wasn't eating. She passed away, at the vets the toxins had took a real tole on her body, and her kidneys shut down. Anyhow the vet who owns the office where i took her the first time accepted responsibility for the miss diagnosis and was very appoligetic. he compensated me for my vet bill but that was primarily the extent of it . well just wanted to let everyone know the outcome .

tinymwoods · Post by **tinymwoods** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:31 pm

sorry to hear you lost her. If vet was responsible, maybe they should do more. We rely on vets like people doctors. I know they are only human, but we pay them ALOT to get it right.

beagler111 · Post by **beagler111** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:27 pm

wHAT ABOUT THE PUPS? LOOSING THE FEMALE? YOU HAD A LOT OF MONEY IN HER. SEEMS LIKE HE COULD HAVE DONE MORE. SORRY TO HEAR IT WENT SO BAD. I KNOW YOU WERE REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS LITTER.

Jane · Post by **Jane** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:37 pm

Wow, what a sad story to hear, sorry about your loss ackermanich.

Hatfield · Post by **Hatfield** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:47 pm

If you owned the female I think you did those pups should have been nice. I hate that she is gone we are all worse off for the transpiring of these events. I would have liked one. I am sorry for your loss.
I lost my best this year because my vet was tring to save me the cost of an unnessasary test that could have saved him.
It hurts , but it happens.
With a good lawyer you should win with a jury trial IMO.
I don't know what I would do.

Sorry for your loss, Robert Hatfield

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