Rabbit shells

[gundog]

16 guage #6 shot.

[HARE EXTRACTOR]

6 shot in the fields.
4 shot in the woods and ditches.
we have some thick stuff.

[clousewt]

I use Federal #4 3 1/2" magnum loads, those rabbits are hard to bring down.

[DRamey]

My son is 9 yr old and is hunting this year with a NEF 28 ga. youth model. We have been shooting clays and he is breaking me up, around $10 a box is as cheap as I can find 28's. I have tried the Cheaper than Dirt catalog (its not), and Sportsman's Guide, and all the Local Wally World has are 7-1/2 AA's. Looks like I am going to have to start reloading. Anybody have any ideas about cheaper 28's? The worst thing of all is that I have a Buzzsaw hound now and he is probably going to get to shoot a lot! (shameless plug for Buzzsaw hounds)

[Duke]

I use #7 1/2 loads with a cylinder bore and later in the season change to # 6 with an improved cylinder. Only takes one pellet to put a rabbit down, or slow it down enough for the dogs to catch. I have been effective on cottontail and hare with these loads. I was actually surprised to find out how easy it is to kill a hare, even though they are quite a bit larger than cottontail.

Try going to a more open choke and I think you will be sold. Pattern those scatter guns at 30 and 40 yards and you will see that you do not need any choke tighter than a Improved cylinder, unless you are hunting a 410.

I really believe it is more choke than shot. The tighter the choke the larger the shot you will want. The idea is to cover a 30 inch circle with an effective pattern (enough to kill the game) at the range you will be hunting and not to tear up the game. Thats why we do not hunt rabbits with 3 1/2 inch shells.

Shotguns using modern shotshells having buffers, shotcups and even nickel and copper plating to hold the pattern together and produce more even patterns. They are far more effective than they use to be. With these changes in shotshells you would do better off to use less restriction in the barrel to produce a more effective killing pattern.

It is pattern that kills, to be succesful on a regular basis, no matter what you hunt, with a scattergun, you want to deliver an effective, lethal dose of shot. Pattern is most often rated by the number of pellets at 30 yards in a 30 inch circle. A lethal pattern for a rabbit is best described as the number of pellets evenly distributed, so that a rabbit cannot escape the pattern if it is within the 30 inch circle. In other words no holes in the pattern for escape. We are lucky that rabbits are frail creatures that even 8 shot can drop them.

Patterning your scatterguns will make you a better hunter, and may surprise you in what you find. Some shotguns shoot very poorly and the pattern is not centered at the point of aim, or anywhere near it, even in expensive shotguns.

I have found that using #7 1/2 shot in my 20 gauge using an improved cylinder choke produce a very effective pattern at 30 yds with plenty of pattern left at 40 yards. In my 12 gauge using a cylinder bore choke and no restriction at all I find the a similar pattern with #6 shot. If you like using high brass or heavy field loads at closer ranges you should direct your shots to the nose of the animal to reduce destruction of meat. The closer the range the tighter the pattern will be.

Anyone can pickup a shotgun and load it with anything from #9 to #4 and kill a rabbit, using any choke. But I would bet most folks that hunt have no idea what their shot patterns look like, and frankly may not care. I bet very few know what the optimal lethal pattern is in their shotguns.
You can get by with anything, but with an hour at the range you can learn exactly how your shotguns performs from 10yds to 40 yds. You will then have all the advantages in your favor and it will lead to more effective and more humane kills on a more regular basis.

Just some info for those of you who use #5 shot and larger out of tighter chokes. I will give you some figures using a 410 as it is easier to count pellets. A 3 inch 410 shotshell with #4 shot has appx 101 pellets per shell. Using this shotshell in a modified choke you should have 67 pellets in a 30 inch circle at 30 yds. 75 pellets if you use a full choke. Remember that the pellet numbers will decrease exponentially as range increases, and increase at closer ranges.

A 410 using only a 2 1/2" shell using #8 1/2 shot with an improved cylinder will have 140 pellets in that same 30 inch circle at 30 yards. In other words you will have more pellets in the killing zone than a 3 inch shell of #4 shot (101 pellets) has in the entire shell before firing. It also has a much shorter shot string because the load is less. (that is another discussion) You have far better chance to kill a rabbit with the 2 1/2 inch shell of #8 1/2 shot from 20 yards to 40 yds than the 3 inch shell of #4. Period. The numbers do not lie. Furthermore the pattern of the shell with #4 will have more "holes" the further out you go from 30 yards. Consistently, you will be far more succesful with smaller shot out to 40 yards with a less restrictive choke.

Use chokes with less restriction and smaller shot. Your pattern will open quicker for close shots on moving animals and you will still have more shot in your pattern at 40 yards. Larger shot will travel further with more energy, but the pattern becomes ineffective quickly with plenty of "holes" for an animal to escape through. Besides, how many of us are trying to shoot beyond 40 yards over hounds anyway. If reaching out is what you want to do, get a 17 HMR.

Further info on 410 shot count:
2 1/2" #7 1/2 177 pellets
2 1/2" #8 1/2 238 pellets
3" #7 1/2 231 pellets
3" #6 160 pellets
3" #4 101 pellets

Realize as you look at these shot counts they increase drastically with larger gauge shotguns. Do with this what you will. If you are happy with what you are doing keep doing it. If you like to experiment and maximize your success pattern your scattergun. You will become a more efficient and effective hunter. The numbers do not lie.

We are not hunting the MONTY PYTHON RABBIT with BIG WHITE FANGS.

[DRamey]

Here's a question about shotguns. My brother had a Mossberg 500 with woodland camo, some sort of turkey special package that Mossberg put out. He changed out choke tubes for whatever game he was after, killed everything with that gun, was averagin 18 doves per box of shells with the modified tube. Got to running around with some high falutin' bird hunters and was going to trade the Mossberg (pd $279) in ($150 store credit) for a Benelli, retail $800. Can't hit crap with the Benelli, has sent it back, had it replaced, etc. Has offered me more back for the Mossberg than the $150 I gave him for it because he's miserable. I offer to let him touch it when he comes around, but he can't leave the house with it. (I'm that way, I tease sometimes). I have shot skeet with it and never shot anything that compares, it is SWEET! Has anyone else ever gotten a gun that was just run-of-the-mill but ended up being just something that was very special? I know Mossberg makes tens of thousands of these, I have 4-5 12's and 20's myself, but this one shoots sweeter than any shotgun I ever shot, including the 1100 I have. Strange!

[clousewt]

I went to a 410, number 4, 3 inch shell.

[Duke]

A lot has to do with the individual, and how the cant of the shotgun fits the user. If the shotgun comes up and sits in a fasion that the user does not have a straight view down the barrel you are going to miss more than a perfect fit. The mossberg must fit.

Benelli in many of their shotguns supply shims to adjust the cant of the barrel to the stock, he can try that, or you can be kind and sell him the mossberg back.

[rabbitgunner87]

Remington 20 gauge Long Range 5 shot, can really reach out

[House Rock Kennels]

Remington 870 20 guage. Remington shell #6 shot. Sometimes I take a .22 rifle.

[APFII]

28ga /5shot

[DRamey]

Duke, I guess I could be kind and sell the Mossberg, but I'm having too much fun right now. He has tried shimming, has had it to a gunsmith, it may be more psychological than a gun problem. Confidence with a shotgun has a lot to do with whether you hit or not. A friend told me Sunday that he took a guy skeet shooting for the first time. This is one of those guys that is sickeningly positive all the time. He hit 21/25 his first time through. I hunt rabbits with a T/C Contender, .410, 16" barrel. Kill as many rabbits with it as my buddies with the long guns, but it is more a matter of where I set up than accuracy. They stand in the path or the road, and I get in the middle of the briar patch. With the pistol I can pick a nice 5-10 yard shot and tear up no meat. Right handy, I say.

[jt&z's dad]

I like my Contender with a 10" barrel and 3" #6 and #4's for hare. If I am using a long gun I usually carry a 20ga. double barrel with a 2 3/4" #6 in the mod barrel and a 2 3/4" #5 in the full barrel. Seems to work good for me in the thick cedar swamps and in the tag alders here in Michigan.

[Duke]

Just curious how much more of a "brush buster" #4 is rather than #7 1/2 and does it make up for having close to a third the amount of pellets of 7 1/2???? I'd like to check penetrations and its actual ability to kill once shot passes through any brush, I imagine it is quite a lot less than you guys imagine. And if it is that much of a "brush buster" does it cause more damage to the meat??

[THALL]

I'm not as educated as the Duke, but i grew up hunting rabbits and squirrels. I know where i hunt 40 yard shots are very common. I do not shoot rabbits at close range unless they are sitting still, and i can shoot their head off. I know my dad started me off with 6's, but when i started destroying meat he switched me to 4's. A few kicks in the rear and i learned how to not shoot up game. Over the years i've became comfortable with 5's. My son is 10 and he uses 6's.

I'd rather have 2 rabbits shot in the front end than 10 with broken back legs!