Your Pack Preference

coolbrze · Post by **coolbrze** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:37 am

House Rock Kennels wrote:haven't ran in a field trail. So I don't know what I will be in. SPO Progressive Pack I think. My dog is a slower dog, probably a 6 speed. With good line control.

Sounds like an SPO type hound to me.

Briarhoppers · Post by **Briarhoppers** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:20 am

When I think of an ideal pack, I have to put it in a hunting context as I am foremost a gun hunter. I run med fast dogs and enjoy running big packs of dogs at times w/ friends, but in a hunting situation, I prefer 3 - 5 dogs. Many have mention having dogs in the pack that "specialize" in jumping or anchoring, having fast and slow dogs, having a cold trailers, etc.

I would honest prefer to have a 3 well rounded hounds, than a dozen dogs on the ground that specialize. And, I think I would be more productive. If you need an anchor dog, then the rest of your dogs in my humble opinion are worthless to me as a gun hunter. I like "gears" and thing a dog that has good gears is much more important to me than a dog that has wicked speed. Don't get me wrong, my dogs can run w/ fast LP dogs, but I expect them to be able to walk a line out down a gravel road if they need to. And, I expect them to be able to jump their own rabbit in extreme conditions either hot to cold. Are they perfect? Absolutely not, but I again think I am much more successful w/ well rounded dogs, that don't have major faults.

Let me give you my Maggie dog for example. She is what I would consider a solid gun dog. She is not flashy. She is not going to run the front for the most part, etc. What she does do is uses her mouth right, hunts, runs the line as fast as conditions permit, uses gears and is a good check dog. I would much rather have 3 Maggies then a bunch of specialist, and I would expect I could kill more bunnies w/ 3 Maggies on any given day than the next guy w/ a dozen fast, slow, cold trailers, anchor, jump, and track dogs.

Just one guy's opinion,

Pete

ANTHONY KERR · Post by **ANTHONY KERR** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:48 am

I agree with Pete. Well rounded medium fast gun dogs. We sometimes hunt with 8 or 9 , but I prefer 3 to 5. I ran with a buddy last night who knows dogs and we witnessed quick dogs snap back when they reached a gravel road on a twisting, turning, and squatting rabbit. They blasted when they could and dug in when they had to. Perfect ? Not hardly, but we heard and saw some good hound work. The specialist I like is the dog that the rabbit cannot get away from. The one that gets the run going again when the other dogs are about to give up.
Anthony

Tim H · Post by **Tim H** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:09 pm

Just out of curiosity, for those of you who want all these equal talent well rounded dogs, what is the purpose of having more than one dog, if they all are the same?

You claim that if one dog is faster than the rest then that dog must be worthless? One dog is able to pick up colder trails, it must be worthless? Another dog is more adaptable, it must be worthless?

I guess all your dogs could just be average at everything, and that makes them productive?

I don't mind someone having an opinion different from mine but to say that someone else's dogs must be worthless when you've never seen them run, to me seems ignorant and arrogant.

Run whatever packs you want but why do you have to run other people and their dogs down just to try to make your way look good?

ked · Post by **ked** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:08 pm

I believe you can have a pack a dogs that are all well rounded but each one maybe excel at one point more than another. As a matter of fact I am not sure I can imagine all dogs being equal in all areas.

Take for instance my pack. I can leave one at home and still have an excellent hunt. But under certain situations I know which dog may shine a little brighter or "pull a rabbit out of a hat" so to speak under those circumstances.

Beagle Huntsman · Post by **Beagle Huntsman** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:56 pm

Synergy is the reason for more than one hound. The sum is greater than the individual parts. A whole pack of GOOD hounds is just more exciting to watch than a single good one, or two.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:09 pm

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Duke · Post by **Duke** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:09 pm

I am rather particular, maybe because I got to see what a pack of really well running hounds could do early on. I thank Mark Ross for that, he had hounds that he could put on the ground and run with the proverbial blanket thrown over them.

Most of my hounds are of the same line with outcrosses where needed, this keeps the hounds pretty much in the same style and speed. With that said I prefer faster style hounds, with good hunt, desire and stamina. This is very important, no babbling, no backtrailing or off game running (except while breaking pups in training) is tolerated.

MOST IMPORTANT, EACH HOUND OF THE PACK MUST CONTRIBUTE TO THE ENTIRE PACK. For example I run mostly taller hounds and have one 13" black and tan female, with good hunt, a decent nose, brains, good kennel manners, however due to her diminutive size she will be gone. She is just a few steps slower than the rest of the gang, but that keeps her from contributing.

I really like to see every hound get its share of the jumps, checks and the lead. While each dog is better in some places than others they have to be good enough to run together with the proverbial blanket thrown over them. Right now I am doing pretty well in this catagory, but as with all breeding programs it is up and down. TO succeed to CREATE a really nice pack you must be willing to CULL. If a hound does not contribute or has faults they must be moved out, hopefully as with my little black and tan bitch to another hunter who can use her or to a home as a pet.

One poor or crazy hound can really mess up a pack. The way to succeed is to spot these hounds and do not give them shelter in your kennel. As a friend of mine told me " A beagle lives sometimes 15 years, thats a long time to keep something that you dont like."

Hard hunting, hard running endurance with decent control of the line, good check work and done with as much speed as the environment at the time dictates.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:11 pm

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jonnyringo · Post by **jonnyringo** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:11 pm

IMHO, synergy is when all dogs complement the pack as a whole with all hounds contributing and some with varying degrees of excellence.

jonnyringo · Post by **jonnyringo** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:20 pm

Briarhoppers wrote:
If you need an anchor dog, then the rest of your dogs in my humble opinion are worthless to me as a gun hunter.
Pete

When running medium fast to fast speed dogs I think a medium to medium fast dog with great line control is an asset on those extremely bad scent days and will save a few rabbit chases. To say the beaglers on this forums dogs are worthless because you have a different opinion is ignorant as was posted earlier by another forum member.

jonnyringo · Post by **jonnyringo** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:23 pm

Tim H wrote:Just out of curiosity, for those of you who want all these equal talent well rounded dogs, what is the purpose of having more than one dog, if they all are the same?

You claim that if one dog is faster than the rest then that dog must be worthless? One dog is able to pick up colder trails, it must be worthless? Another dog is more adaptable, it must be worthless?

I guess all your dogs could just be average at everything, and that makes them productive?

I don't mind someone having an opinion different from mine but to say that someone else's dogs must be worthless when you've never seen them run, to me seems ignorant and arrogant.

Run whatever packs you want but why do you have to run other people and their dogs down just to try to make your way look good?

Tim,
Excellent post and I couldnt agree more.

danny vansickle · Post by **danny vansickle** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:39 pm

i prefer a fast,hard hitting pack that runs a clean line and knows how to hunt to get a rabbit instead of standin in the road waitin for the other dogs to jump one for them.

i run clean hounds that way if i choose to throw a young pup into the mix to run,i dont have to worry about a big swarpin swingin dog blowin the young pup up

Briarhoppers · Post by **Briarhoppers** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:57 pm

Tim H and Johnnyringo my post was not directed at anyone specific....I'm sorry if you took it that way. I not even sure I read any of y'alls posts before I added my own $0.02. My comment regarding fast dogs that need an anchor was my opinion as a gun hunter. Its based on my own experience w/ a wicked fast dog that I used to own and watching other fast dogs run first hand. I'm not calling anyone's dog worthless...to each his own. If you re-read my post I said "worthless to me...as a gun hunter."

My fast dog was called Roscoe. He could run 50 yards ahead of any pack. On a good scenting day he looked like an Allstar....but on poor scenting conditions, he looked like a complete fool as he only had one gear - wide open and couldn't move the track on poor days. So, this dog was no use to me as a gun hunter...(please note, I'm not calling your dogs worthless). He was fun to run when conditions were ideal, but should I go buy an anchor dog, just so I can keep this fast dog on a track on poor days or do I get a more well rounded dog that I can run everyday?

I have also witness fast dogs that couldn't hold a track and follow a rabbit line across an open field....the dogs would get 100 yards out in the field before they realized none of them had the line, etc. Nothing wrong w/ speed IMO, but gears is much more important to me.

Someone asked why do I need to run w/ other guys....I don't NEED to, I choose to b/c I enjoy the company and comparing dogs and gun hunting w/ others....just like y'all.

I honestly believe you all mis-took the tone of my original post. No need to get over defensive so quickly. I'm just giving my opinion, just like you all are giving your opinion. \
-pete

jumpmaster · Post by **jumpmaster** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:11 pm

I dont understand wanting a pack of dogs that you can throw a blanket over. If we all get together to look for a missing dog, would we be better off all in a tight group, or spreading out, each looking on his own?