Taking Credit

[pwill]

Like everyone , I want great dogs and I would like to think I have some. I have some of the Boldstroke line as many of you know by now. But my problem is , not just with this line, is changing names and taking credit for breedings and furthering the line with total disregard for the person who started the line. If I buy a dog and the person I`m buying it from tells me up front that he wants me to keep the lines name and I agree , I should do it. If the same person takes alot of time and explains the breeding process of this line and gives me alot of advice on when and what dogs to breed,should I take ALL the credit .

I think more people should show more respect for the ones that have helped them and follow their wishes.

Am I wrong to feel this way, I don`t think so . Tell me how ya`ll feel about this. Paul

[MasonsBeagles]

This is one of the most confusing dilemas faced when getting a pup. Some breeders want you to others do not. I have heard both sides. Personally I tell the person that I buy my pups from that I want to give them credit but ask their permission. I have heard from alot of breeders go both ways. One draw back for the breeder is if the dog ends up in the wrong hands and is not trained properly it could reflect poorly on the line.

I will be curious to see the breeders response, because I have often pondered this question.

As a rule of thumb if I buy a pup it gets the kennels name if I breed the dog the offspring gets mine. I see it done with the big name kennels so I assume this is ok.

[Alabama John]

pwill If you have a kennel name and line, and you outcross occasionally asall lines do, do you call the pups by the kennel name of the stud or call the pups by your dams line?

They would be 50-50 of each line!

All lines today go back to some older line or lines and the owner of the new or not so new line knows which lines they are. Those old lines seldom ever get credit for creating the new super duper line of today, but no line just started from no where, some one elses line of dogs were bred to start that line, but, seldomm if ever mentioned.

The impression given is that "I" started this line. When really it is a mixture of others lines from the past.

Who were the old timers whose dogs or kennels were used to start this line? They are buried and forgotten bymost, but, not all of us today!

[pwill]

I agree with that John, but what I was saying is if you have an agreement that the name of the line would stay on the dog and then you change it and call it your own , is that the right thing to do? I wouldn`t think so and I wouldn`t change a name if I said I wouldn`t.

Yes a line has to start somewhere and many great lines are forgotten, but if you have a gentlemans agreement to keep names the same and only breed certain ways shouldn`t that mean something. It`s more about standing behind the wishes of the breeder. Paul

[Alabama John]

pwill, I agree, if that was the agreement you both made, it is much more than keeping the wishes of the breeder as you agreed.

It is keeping your word!

[New York Hillbilly]

My kennel consists of Rising Sun hounds and has been this way since about 1995. Over that time Paul Webb and I have become very good friends and he has been an excellent advisor about what will, may, or will not work in the breedings of "his" line of hounds. I have trialed the hounds I own from his kennel, and even championed out my stud dog from him. Yet I still pay him the respect to decide whether or not to use the name Rising Sun. Paul has given his blessing and as a matter of fact even asked "me" to use the name of his kennel. I would never take it upon myself to just use his kennel/line name without prior consent. The only credit I take in my hounds is that they have been treated well, cared for, loved and given every minute possible in the field to become all they can be. I pay all due respect to Paul for his hard work in developing a strain of hound. This is by no means an easy task. I say leave it up to the individual who did the legg work. Goota go now!
NYH

[AlabamaSwamper]

I think credit should be given where credit is due. I recently purchased two 4 month old pups. Both parents has his kennel name and I asked him if he wanted me to use that on them when I registered them. He said no, to use what I wanted to but to let him know how they are progressing once I start them. I said, "fine" and off I went. If these two gyps make the cut in Sept, I will use my kenned name for them. That is not taking credit away from him and I promised that if they made the cut, that I would praise his two dogs for producing them if I anyone ever asks. When someone asks me what lines they are out of, I say, "Templetons" and then explain what lines he used.

[wingpatch]

i always kinda figuard that was what Pedigrees were for To give credit to where it was due..Dogs, Breeders & owners

Wingpatch

[New York Hillbilly]

AlabamaSwamper,
You are right in your case. That would not be taking credit for anything in my humble opinion. But notice one thing, you did the respectful thing and "Asked". To me that is paying respect to the man. Just my two cents.
NYH

[Mike Thoms]

I think the breeder should decide how to use his name with pups he raises. If he wants his kennel name in the pup's name it should be there. If he doesn't care, then do what you feel is right. I don't think it is appropriate to use another kennel name on pups you raised, I feel awkward doing that. I'm afraid someone will think I'm trying to sell pups on someone else's effort. There really is only one way to be assured of getting a dog from a line and that is to buy it from the line breeder. I don't have a line so I'm not trying to seem exclusive, but that's just my opinion.
You are raising dogs that breeder used to own and when his name is on it his reputation is also on it. Maybe the new owner isn't as strict about quality of dogs bred or conversely they may be more picky. Either way, the credit or blame will go where it deserves if you make your own name. If the breeder wants you to continue using it, that is YOUR call, you know him and your dogs. I agree with wingpatch that from your pup on the pedigree will give the credit for you.

[DarrinG]

If a person buys a pup from a breeder, the new owner should ASK the breeder if the new owner wants to use the kennel name from where they came. Otherwise, name the pup whatever the heck you want to!

There are so many variables that goes into the upbringing of a pup that a good, well bred dog can turn into a lazy potlicker if not trained properly (that happens more than we think). I personally dont want ANY pup that I personally have not trained wearing my kennel name on their papers. I have seen too many times a pup sit in a kennel forever and then when rabbit season/trial time rolls around, the owner thinks it should hit the ground running like a grand champ.

If I sell a pup (which I dont do very often), that dog is now out of my control. The new owner owns that dog lock, stock and barrel. I'm not gonna tell him/her what to do with it, how to breed it OR what to name it. They paid for the dog and that's their right. I simply ask for them NOT to use my kennel name unless I OK it, because I have no way of knowing for sure (unless it's a close friend) how that pup is being raised and trained.

My $0.02

[Tri-Power]

I would think you would name the dog as to how or what name you feel should be reflected into future generations. For instance. If i buy a Boldstroke pup it for sure will have Boldstroke somewhere in the name and maybe the kennel name, but if i raise a litter of pups out of that Boldstroke dog and get them started it will have my kennel name and Boldstroke in the name somewhere because they would have already been papered. Likewise on a Turbo bred dog. Turbo for sure and maybe the kennel name on a purchased pup. Another angle is this. If a litter of pups are born on my place i feel it should carry the breeding line name but not necessarally the kennel name as i didn't train that pup but if i raise the pup and sell him as a started dog and put my time and methods in the training of the dog then it should carry my kennel name as well as the bloodline. Just my opinion. How far off am i ?

Bill Stone

[arrow]

It sound to me like some people are not familiar with registering dogs.... Its a simple process in NKC/ARHA. If the dog has not been registered the person who owns the dog names the dog. Once the dog is registered the name can NOT be changed....DONE ..OVER..KAPUT...FINISHED.... IF YOU REGISTER THE DOG BEFORE YOU SELL IT..........Read the back of the Registration Certificate.......A NEW OWNER MAY CHANGE THE NAME OF THE DOG, IF DESIRED.....WHEN TRANSFERRING OWNERSHIP........EXCEPT ARHA REGISTERED BEAGLES, THOSE CAN NEVER BE CHANGED ONCE THE DOG HAS BEEN NAMED. Simply put, register your dogs with your Kennel name and you have assured for posterity that you will always get the credit.......Im sure AKC is the same way. Don't know about the others........Bottom line, Register and name your dogs ....End of discussion???????????????