kidney failure?

[THALL]

why is it so many dogs die of kidney failure? Vacinations? poor feed? wormer? over exertion? Or is this just a easy for the vet to say? I think there must be a reason.

[Beagled1]

why is it so many dogs die of kidney failure? Vacinations? poor feed? wormer? over exertion? Or is this just a easy for the vet to say? I think there must be a reason.

Poor quality protein and high phosphorous levels in the diet are the major contributing factors for kidney disease. Many cheaper foods do not have the best vitamin premix, which includes a less than ideal calcium:phosphorous ratio (too much phosporous & not enough calcium to balance it out). Ideal calcium:phosphorous ratio for dogs is about 1.2:1, any higher levels of phos over prolonged periods is an invitation for trouble, as it must be filtered out through the kidneys. Adding meat to dog food without calcium supplementation or bones will also imbalance the levels of these minerals if done over long periods of time.
Also, a combination of yearly vaccines and worming too often can cause liver/kidney problems. Then take into account flea & tick meds, which are chemicals and do have an effect on the body ... mix them all together & its a recipe for low grade health.
But honestly, diet is probably the most influential factor here. Its been said so many times that cheap foods will keep a dog alive but they won't thrive, and thats true. JMHO, but you can't pay $10 for 50lbs of food and expect you're getting a quality product that isn't harming the dogs on the inside just because they stay alive while eating that food ...

[ny hillbilly]

I'll give you the biggie for kidney failure. WATER or lack thereof! As mentioned there is all kinds of toxins which are the result of the body's metabolism of what goes into it. The liver is a big sponge that grabs much of what floats around in the body that would cause harm but the kidneys filter from the bodys blood the toxins and by-products of metabolism that were already mentioned. Without sufficient water to transport at the cellular level those toxins from the blood stream you (or your hound) becomes septic and the kidneys fail. Dehydration is a real killer and I honestly believe more than one hound has gone into kidney failure and died due to insufficient water intake.
NYH

[bullboy]

i lost a bitch to it this summer i had her to 3 different vet clinics and i asked them all what causes this and if food can cause this and they all said no.the vets said that a infection at one time caused this along with a poor immune system i'm doing a little research on a certain dog this female waqs heavy line bred and i know of several other dogs with him in it that also died this way

[SilverZuk]

Some beagles and other breeds are predisposed to it.
It is a gentic fault.

I had a male die 2 years ago from kidney disease.
Lack of water was never an issue.
Quality of food was not an issue (same thing my neighbors feed, and I still feed the same stuff with no problems).
Vaccinations were not an issue. The dog had his shots (7 in 1) and interceptor in the summer months. A couple times a year I would have to treat tapes.

I raised him with a gip, she is still live and well. I haven't changed anything since and my other two dogs are live and healthy.

It was highly unlikely that he got into poison. The only time he was out of the kennel was running, and that was supervised and with the gip. If one got into poison, I am sure the other would have. The timeline of his failure didn't match typical antifreeze poisoning.

I read everything I could find about kidney health and dogs to see if I could find the cause. The only thing I could find was genetics.
Beagles are one of the breeds listed in sources I read that are predisposed to congenital kidney defects.

[SilverZuk]

I don't agree with what others have posted.

I don't think food is a big factor. Think of the 1000's of dogs that are fed the same food. How come a high percentage don't die of kidney disease/failure? Yes, food affects kidey function along with everything else, but I don't feel that is a huge factor.

I agree that many beagles live a hard life because the owners don't keep water in the kennel and don't water them in the field. I have heard of a couple dogs the died due to overheating. The owner ran them hard in the summer months for few hours, put them in the box and drove a couple hours. Two dogs were dead when he got home. I feel that chronic and acute dehydration can affect kidney function.

I always wondered about the horse/cattle wormers and other medicines that aren't approved for dogs that many give to dogs.
I am sure it can play a part, especially if not dosed correctly.

[Jack]

In Eastern Washington it is very very dry at times. Not only no rain but no creeks. So I carry water for the dogs. Every hound I have had that died from kidney failure was a very good hound, coyote or rabbit that would not come to the truck for water. Something in them would not let them quit the track even when they were so dry you could not tell their bark any more

[ny hillbilly]

SilverZuk,
You certainly can choose to believe or not to believe anything you like but the truth is water is the most critical factor (aside from breathing) in keeping us alive. That is why all living beings can go for long periods of time without food but only days at best without water. This is not my opinion but a simple physiological fact. Think for a minute of those disease processes that destroy the kidneys and why. Diabetes is a big one as the body floods itself with water in an attempt to rid the blood from the extreme levels of glucose and in the process work the kidneys like crazy to filter it from the blood. Also, Hypertension is brutal on the kidneys as the tiny vessels that detoxify the blood one cell at a time are stressed to the max under the constant work load and high pressure. We can't forget salt either because where salt goes so goes water which is why people who eat great amounts of salt in their diets retain water, and drive up their blood pressure (again hyperstension) bloat, can't get their rings off, etc. as the water remains in the body to balance tonicity. It would be interesting if we began checking the blood pressure of our hounds I think it would be very telling. Perhaps I will look into that myself. I am sure there are genetic issues from time to time, as well as unknown injury, poisoning and times when the etiology will never be known. I do think however as much as we all love our hounds and think we do our best for them we also occassionaly screw up. It is easier on our minds, to live with saying it was some mystery disease that caused kidney failure and death of one of our hounds but I believe that is often denial. Again not every hound that dies of kidney failure does so because it was not cared for properly but I think the only one that only ever really know is the one caring for the hound and the hound. I still say proper watering is the big deal..I'll ask my vet.
NYH.....(R.N., B.S. Nursing)

[HatterasBob]

Leptospirosis

Have you dogs ever drank stagnate water from a cow pasture or farm creek where farm animals, wildlife or rodents could have urinated.

ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!

Leptospirosis causes kidney failure!!!!!!!!!!! Now the bad news, current vaccines only ennoculate against 4 of 9 serovars commonly found in canines and the 4 are not generally the strains our dogs catch. Because of the reduction of known cases of Lepto, vets had suspended vaccinated against Lepto because there are more allergic reactions to the Lepto vaccine then ALL other canine vaccines combined and they didn't ennoculate against the correct serovars. Do not give puppies a Lepto vaccine, because it can kill them. (BS in Zoology, pre-Vet and a dog that died from kidney failure last year, a pup with Lepto and NO possibility of water or dog food causing the kidney failure.) Now, lack of water absolutely can cause kidney failure. Absolutely!!!! Not sure about food, never researched it. I'm sure the manufactures of cheap dog food would want it know that their cheap food causes kidney failure. A couple of lawsuits and they would be out of business. That's another topic.

[Beagled1]

I don't agree with what others have posted.

I don't think food is a big factor. Think of the 1000's of dogs that are fed the same food. How come a high percentage don't die of kidney disease/failure? Yes, food affects kidey function along with everything else, but I don't feel that is a huge factor.

You can choose not to believe it, but there is valid research indicating high phosphorous levels can induce kidney problems - it is also widely known and accpeted that controlling phos intake in a dog that already in renal failure will control the progression of the disease. Phosphorous is mainly found in any high protein food, which is why its important to make sure the quality of the protein and vitamin mix in the food is superior. If you are feeding a 30% protein feed whose manufacturer carefully balances the cal:phos ratio and uses meats and grains that are "pure" - meaning they do not contain high amounts of bone meal and the like which will increase amounts of dietary phos - the feed should have little to no impact on the kidneys. But if you use a cheap food containing 22% protein but whose meat sources are "meat and bone meal" or another form of meat meal that contains bonemeal or is of a general low quality and contains hormones, chemicals, & the vitamin mix uses cheaper, less bioavailable minerals ... the lower protein food will actually do more damage to the kidneys.
Diet and genetics go hand in hand to offset disease, especially autoimmune diseases. While an inbred animal may have a lower immune threshold, a proper diet helps them live to the fullest of their genetic potential, while poor diet just compounds the problems already caused by genes. There are other factors that cause kidney problems, and not all dogs dying of kidney disease are acquiring the disease for the same reasons, but to say that diet doesn't play a role is not based in any fact. Because one dog died and another didn't does not mean food played no part in the death. There are 1000s of dogs being fed the same low quality feeds, and they are having problems with their kidneys, as this thread is indicating.
As for lepto, most of us have vaccinated for it at one time or another, so cases of kidney diseases induced by it do occur, but are not why so many Beaglers are reporting their dogs are dying of kidney failure.

[Beagled1]

It is easier on our minds, to live with saying it was some mystery disease that caused kidney failure and death of one of our hounds but I believe that is often denial. Again not every hound that dies of kidney failure does so because it was not cared for properly but I think the only one that only ever really know is the one caring for the hound and the hound. I still say proper watering is the big deal..I'll ask my vet.
NYH.....(R.N., B.S. Nursing)

BTW, I have to agree with water being another major factor in kidney problems, besides diet & genetics.
Curious if anyone who is having young dogs ( around 7-8 years) die of kidney problems and are using those lixit bottles or are not thoroughly cleaning/disenfecting water bowls and replacing old water at least once or twice daily. I used to work with a local woman who rescued dogs from puppy mills - their teeth were always rotted and the one thing they had in common were those stupid lixit bottles ...
Actually, thats another thing I forgot about. Oral health. Dirty teeth lead to infections which will go to the kidneys and if left untreated for years, will cause kidney, heart, liver disease. Fresh water is best for cleaning teeth, but poor diet will, again, play a role in oral disease ...

[Beagled1]

It is easier on our minds, to live with saying it was some mystery disease that caused kidney failure and death of one of our hounds but I believe that is often denial. Again not every hound that dies of kidney failure does so because it was not cared for properly but I think the only one that only ever really know is the one caring for the hound and the hound. I still say proper watering is the big deal..I'll ask my vet.
NYH.....(R.N., B.S. Nursing)

BTW, I have to agree with water being another major factor in kidney problems, besides diet & genetics.
Curious if anyone who is having young dogs ( around 7-8 years) die of kidney problems and are using those lixit bottles or are not thoroughly cleaning/disenfecting water bowls and replacing old water at least once or twice daily. I used to work with a local woman who rescued dogs from puppy mills - their teeth were always rotted and the one thing they had in common were those stupid lixit bottles ...
Actually, thats another thing I forgot about. Oral health. Dirty teeth lead to infections which will go to the kidneys and if left untreated for years, will cause kidney, heart, liver disease. Fresh water is best for cleaning teeth, but poor diet will, again, play a role in oral disease ...

[HatterasBob]

[quote="Beagled1]As for lepto, most of us have vaccinated for it at one time or another, so cases of kidney diseases induced by it do occur, but are not why so many Beaglers are reporting their dogs are dying of kidney failure.[/quote]

Beagle1, you missed the point of my reply. I don't care if you have been vaccinated for Lepto a 100 times, it might as well be placebos. Up until 6 months ago ALL Lepto vaccines only protected against 2 serovars of the 9 canine lepto serovars and they were the wrong 2. The 2 serovars that were protected against are NO longer a problem in dogs (wiped out) it is the other 7 that are the problem. If you have vaccinated for Lepto in the past 6 months you may have protected against 4 serovars. The strain of Lepto my puppy caught was not included in the 4. My lab work was sent to Pfiser and they intend on including my particular serovar in a new vaccine after approval.

It use to be high protein foods caused kidney damage in the off season, but there have been some studies (the one I read was from Canada) and the findings were that no correlation between protein and kidney failure.

So don't discount LEPTOSPIROSIS as a cause of kidney failure.

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Intersting discussion!!!

I do keep my Beagles watered at all times even if it means one might pee in his crate overnight. I'd rather have a wet blamket than a dried up old hound

I am really curious about the Lepto issue and insect borne diseases as well....

Keep up the interesting convo....

[HatterasBob]

Honey Pot, have you vaccinated all your hounds with PROLYME (Intervet)vaccine? You better! I guess a tick isn't an insect, but close enough.