A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
TomMN wrote:"The system is not perfect but is the purest registry in North America"
Then why is AKC registering anything anyone wants to call a coonhound for free?
Here is what I have gotten from AKC:
A chance to sign up for their credit card.
A chance to buy a vacuum cleaner (isn't AKC supposed to be non-profit?)
A low quality set of papers without pedigrees (that costs extra)
A letter from some guy with a name I can't pronounce everytime my paperwork isn't filled out correctly (about half the time the mistake was theirs).
A phone conversation with someone who knows nothing about hounds or hunting when we need to call AKC about something like why we haven't gotten our papers yet.
I have had several AKC registered pups that did not make dogs that I could hunt rabbits with. We have a female that was ARHA registered with no pedigree that, when bred has given us some of the best rabbit dogs we could ask for. They look, and most importantly HUNT like a beagle is supposed to. There have been a bunch of AKC beagles given a FC title that you could not shoot rabbits over.
AKC is a business. Without customers they will cease to exist. Seems like they would treat us a little better. I guess they decided they don't need us anymore.
Tom best response yet , without us they have no business. I actually hate too deal with akc in any form or fashion , they must not pay much, there help sucks . My dogs are akc registered are they any better than grade hounds ? Ask me the next time i run em. Akc is catch 22 period. They have done little too nothing for me , I want too know how to get a job there. Little too no experiance nessary. You remember the insurance option you get with each registration ? Well i took it once and low and behold after the guidelines my dog got sick 900.00 dollars worth of sick. I filed the required paperwork by akc guidelines , they paid 0.00.
Great policy . No pre exsisting condition or nothing they shafted me there.
Akc the big brother is watching you . Arha founded for the poor man in 1987. When the last time you didnt spend 100.00 at there trial , to win a 5.00 trophy. Everett Morgan had a dream . Nice dream. . Somebody wake me, please
Jimmie Abshire.
When the moment of truth arrives, the point of preparation has passed.
Old School, Full Throttle ,No Bottle.
I have run all kinds of trials in all kinds of registries and the dogs are not really my issue with the AKC... I just think they hammer people for all kinds of silly crap and they kick back more simple stuff than imaginable but they are the standard that all other registries go by so we are sorta hand cuffed to them , I have seen some pretty sad looking ARHA dogs and yet when I look at AKC brace champions I just wonder what the heck the AKC is thinking. Those fat bow legged no neck gator looking hounds aren't even close to what I read as they AKC breed standard...I think we just pay the money and hope the AKC doesn't get too crazy. I guess its all in what we want out of our dogs. And NO papers don't run a rabbit but they do keep many people honest and allow us to track our dogs breeding back to certain hounds for traits we desire
I agree with many-I do not like a lot of what goes on with AKC. However, in the 10 years I have run in ARHA, there have been 3 owners and it sure is hard to see any improvement with each sale.
I am fairly certain AKC will still be in business in 20 years (and I still plan on running dogs then). I will be surprised if NKC is still around in 20 years. Registering with AKC ensures me that I will be able to trace my dogs' and other dogs' history down the road and know they are purebred.
Rick G wrote:
Dont get me wrong, I like all the registries, and have competed and finished hounds in all of them. UKC does the most for us as hunters, ARHA has promoted a realistic rabbit hunting trial, and the AKC and CKC has tried to be the recording secretary. If you think that a "breed inspector" who measures your dog under 15" and say's "yup looks like a hound" is the judge and jury on your hounds pedigree, and then paying that registry $15, well go ahead and spend your money that way.
An extra few bucks on an AKC registerd dog or papers, is far less than $1200.00 for a pit bull/beagle mix.
Rick
That is the type of response I was looking for, thanks.
SouthernBeagles wrote:
So what has the AKC done for me? Well, they are active in protecting our rights as breeders, hunters and dog owners on capitol hill. I admit the paws thing didn't go over too well but all in all the AKC is there to help us.
The PAWS bill is what really gave me heartburn with AKC.
I never even thought about it before that.
If the NRA supported the equivalent of PAWS, I would not renew my membership.
What other bills/legislation have they supported or opposed that affects the hound hunter? (I saw your post on the 2nd page and still reading).
Last edited by SilverZuk on Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head to register your dogs with AKC. If you don't like AKC don't register with them. Simple solution.
I won't be buying any of your pups nor 90% of most people looking for a beagle pup.
Good luck.
After reading all the posts, there are some very valid points about the pros and cons of AKC/NKC/ARHA along with other registries.
Yes there are crooks in all of them. That you cannot prevent.
I have seen dogs that I was quite confident that had papers switched. It may have been an accident or intentional. Who knows, but I can tell a difference between a 3 year old and a 7 year old.
I would like to see the percentage of AKC registered dogs that are working/hunting dogs that are actually doing what they are bred to do.
I would also like to see what percentage of their revenues are generated from this group.
What can we do as hunters and hunting dog owners to have AKC/NKC/UKC better serve us?
We pay them a lot of money, if they disenfranchise hunters, and hunting dog breeders, they will feel it.
Also, many have ansered the question
If a beagle had exactly what you wanted in a rabbit dog, but was not registered would you buy it or breed to it?
Obviously my answer is Yes.
If it does exactly what I want and how I want, I would buy it and breed to it.
I have seen breedings that didn't produce the desired results with registered dogs quite a few times. Even with bloodlines that are reported to be a good cross.
I have seen a couple of superb dog that doesn't throw good pups even with different crosses.
So bad crosses exist with or without registration.
I guess if you knew a lot about different bloodlines, you may be able to reduce the chances of a bad cross by studying the pedigree.
If someone like Branko quit registering with AKC.
Would you quit buying, running, breeding Branko dogs?
What if they came up with their own registry and pedigree service for beagle only?
I am sure Brankos can show you the pedigrees to all their dogs.
IMO, the Branko name is the most recognized name in beagling right now. Would dropping affiliation with a certain registry affect the quality of the hounds he produces?
Obviously not.
Would it affect your decision to buy a Branko hound?
southern beagles, what i was talking about was the midwest spo trials that are popular today. those same akc hounds are ran in arha trials as well as ukc. just because the dog is registered akc doesnt mean that the dogs in arha or ukc cannot compete with it. in reg spo vs pp and ukc i would def. agree its hard to have a dog that fits reg. spo arha pp and ukc per. pack. it just goes back to the saying"the paper dont run the rabbit the dog does". sorry if i was confusing there.btw, all of my hounds are akc except for 2 , and i have 8 .
I think many have forgotten America is a free market economy....If I was as disgruntled with AKC as many of you are, I wouldnt register my dogs with AKC.....Nobody is forcing you!
I feel all 3 of the major registries have there faults, and one registry is so bad in my opinion that I dont deal with them any more. Again thats our right, and I exercise mine.
As far as AKC being the purest registry I would have to agree.....they have started making advances with DNA that seems to really upset guys, but I fully support it.....It has caught several guys doing the paper swaping and thats a good thing.
AKC runs judging seminars, and offers a wide variety of competions events that suits nearly everyone.
All three registries charge a fee for registration, and I dont see that any of them do any great deeds for the sportsman.....its just to protect their own self interests.....All three must be doing something right, as they continue to exist! I would encourage some of you to get on the federation comittees that deal with AKC policies....If you cant do that, at least contact your federations representative and share your views....
Rob’s Ranger Rabbit Hunter (Lefty)
Rose City Quad King’s
DogPatch Fly
Silverzuk, Id have to say yes it would stop me from buying or breeding to Branko. Why?, because I trial my hounds in Mid-West and NY hare trials, and it would prevent me from doing that with future hounds. In NY we have one UKC hunting beagle club (5hrs from me) and no ARHA clubs. As most know I have no problem taking a 10 hr drive to attend a trial, but given the UKC and ARHA format's I would only be able to take one dog to those trials as I WILL NOT send my dogs out with strange handlers.
To have to pick and choose through a kennel full of dogs, only to take one, is not worth it to drive to one of those trials (and I do enjoy going to them). I guess what it comes down to, is what your intentions are with your hounds. And yes I would buy a good grade hound to hunt with, I just would not breed it. There are so many different bloodlines and each one is a different style, and each one is a spin from another. You dont breed an apple to a orange. Breeding is at best a odd's game. I just want to give myself the best odd's to make a above average cross with concistancy. And without knowing what line a dog comes from a breeding becomes a real crap shoot. (In my experiences)
And to the guy that thinks Im like his wife "bitching", and should call the AKC with my questions. I think you should re-read my post. I have no questions for the AKC, as I could care less what they do for me in DC.(because to me its not much) I am very close to local and state politics and have called my congressmen, senators, and counslmen on hunting and gun issues so many times over the last 20 yrs that the office secretary knows me on a first name basis.
So if anyone here thinks that by registering your hound with any of the mentioned registries is gonna preserve your rights as sportsmen and hunters, you are a bit off base. It will take a heck of alot more than that. Register, compete, breed and do with your kennel as you see fitting for your needs and expectations. There is no right or wrong as long as we are all united as sportmen and all agree on that.
Bev....I forgot you had a Dolly too....It wasnt her I was refering to, but after seeing that picture......lol just kidding!
If someone like Branko quit registering with AKC.
Would you quit buying, running, breeding Branko dogs?
What if they came up with their own registry and pedigree service for beagle only?
I am sure Brankos can show you the pedigrees to all their dogs.
IMO, the Branko name is the most recognized name in beagling right now. Would dropping affiliation with a certain registry affect the quality of the hounds he produces?
Obviously not.
Would it affect your decision to buy a Branko hound?
Thats like asking me if billy graham quits preaching would i still be a christian. Branko is spoke not wheel
When the moment of truth arrives, the point of preparation has passed.
Old School, Full Throttle ,No Bottle.
If someone like Branko quit registering with AKC.
Would you quit buying, running, breeding Branko dogs?
?
I wouldn't buy any Branko dogs that were not AKC or CKC registered. I bought two directly from Frieda Krpan and had them shipped to Ohio that were CKC registered. AKC honors CKC and CKC honors AKC. Neither of them honor UKC or NKC registered beagles.
SouthernBeagles,
I am interested in the comment about shooting over hounds at "every" AKC trial. I have marshalled and worked at almost every LP on hare at the AKC club I belong to here in N.Y. over the past 4 years and have attended and ran hounds at numerous SPO on rabbit trials. I have NEVER seen anyone shoot over anything....ever at any of these trials. The only thing that ever got shot was a lot of BULL..... and that was not so bad!....LOL....Also, all of the trials I have ever attended or worked were in enclosures where as ARHA I have run were out in the wild. I own both AKC and so called "grade" hounds. The best hound in my kennel was given to me and is an AKC registered hound that was a wreck when I got her weighing in a a whopping 60 plus pounds and barely able to walk a rabbit out due to her shape. She now runs a solid medium to fast , never loses a rabbit if she is alone, will run for hours on end and if she wants to know where I am if rabbit goes to ground she will actually howl out to me and when I whistle she will come to me, check in, and then go start another rabbit. She can run everyday she is out despite the weather and the only draw back if there is one is that she is a little to layed back in her search. Now the real tough news on her is she is by everybody's standards now a "grade" hound because they guy who gave her to me in such rough shape and did not want her any more says he cannot find her papers and has no interest in helping me get them for her. Now what? Is she now any less of a rabbit hound because of this? Anyone that has ever seen her run has drooled over her but guess what....now she is a grade dog. I bet there are alot of good ones that met the same fate.
NYH
. Somebody wake me, please