UKC in the deep south?

[DarrinG]

Thanks for the insight Big Dog. I appreciate it. In relaton to what you stated about "knowing your dog", I guess that is where I have heard some folks say an inexperienced handler could get "out-handled" by calling dogs, right?

I'm still in the dark though on what infractions are given for swinging, cheating the line, possible backtracking in a check area, etc. Any insight in this area?

Thanks again.

[Big Dog]

I have only been to one hunt so I will not claim to be an expert, but on my cast we didn't stay up on the dogs at all. We stayed on the trail, because one of the requirements is for everyone to stay together. Based on that I would say that it would be very hard to tell what was really going on in the check area. I plan on going to some more hunts this fall and I will definitely learn more then. The rules are very confusing also so I had to go with the flow because I didn't fully understand everything, and I aint the dumbest guy in the woods.(LOL) I will say that the guys on my cast were experienced and they did try to help me out a lot. A guy could get out handled though by a more experienced person. They are really tough on the rule about calling your dog by the 3rd bark and if you don't they can have him picked up. Of course I know my dogs, but I had another guy handling my rattler dog and he missed one, but they gave him a break because he was a newby. Also you can only have one dog per handler, so if you want to take two dogs you have to take someone with you that knows your dogs bark. I didn't like that part because I have 4 that I took to the hunt, but could only run 2.

Big Dog

[TomMN]

I haven't been to a UKC hunt for beagles but I have been to lots of them for coonhounds (almost every weekend this time of year) so I have a basic understanding of how they work. The whole point is to be as close to an actual hunt as possible except instead of shooting the rabbit you score +points. When you go hunting you do not follow the dogs around to see if they make any mistakes, you try to cut the rabbit off and shoot it. The dog that does the most to put that rabbit in front of you is the one that will most often win in UKC. If you are hung up on how they do it you probably won't like UKC but if you are mainly a rabbit hunter and like a dog that brings you a rabbit and doesn't take all day to do it then you will most likely do well in UKC.

[Rosewood]

I did in no means intend to offend anyone. You misunderstood my statement. What I meant to say is that the midwest type dogs would not do as well in the deep south because of some of the aggresive style of running sometimes refered to as cutting and slashing. But by the same token the deep south dogs may have a tough time keeping up with some of the midwest dogs in the more open terrain. I have been to Mississippi and also to Ohio and there are differences in terrain.
As far as the UKC and check they are scored differently than ARHA in the UKC as the rule stands now all hounds are put on the clock when they stop barking. After one minute a check is called. At that point all dogs are given -20 points on the score card. If one hound picks up the check and moves it out and brings the race back to its original quality that hound is given back his 20 points. The other hounds keep their -20.
For the part about cutting and slashing there is a rule about that which says "for rough running cutting or slashing on the second offense a dog will be scratched" " This rule is to be strictly enforced"
Most of the time if a dog is running rough he will miss some lines and knock himself out of the competition anyway. and most cold nosed dogs will do the same thing by opening and not producing a runnable track which gives them minus their strike points.
The check rule of 1 minute I personally think is too long. I have been lobbying the UKC to change that to a shorter time. the rules committee meets this year to discuss and possible rule changes.
At this time the UKC is offering the first hunt free to any new club who would like to try it so come on out and give it a whirl.

[mohunter]

Here goes my 2 cents worth about UKC hunts... Probably my pick for a day in, day out hunting beagle. At the UKC hunts I have attended, here are some observations that I have made: In a cast, there can be any speed or style of beagle. We have a local Little Pack breeder around here and they have pretty much their own UKC hunts. The other side of me is a UKC club that hunts a more conservative type of beagle. If you go to a club, watch how these 2 things are scored.
1) When they mark a rabbit, see how they score the beagle crossing the line. I have seen all of these myself. a) Beagle walking across the line, no hunt or barking, but is scored because he crossed. b) Beagle so far away from line that he was in another farmer's field, yet he crossed the line and was scored. c) Beagle running different rabbit but crossed the line and was scored.
2) How to get high scores at a UKC hunt... The rabbit is to make a complete circle before you are to make a line. Well, if you score on the rabbit several times on the first circle and the second circle, then a new rabbit is scored 3 or 4 times before his complete circle. Of course everyone in the group is happy, because they go back to the clubhouse with high scores.
I am not putting down the UKC or their dogs. I enjoy UKC hunts equally as much as ARHA and AKC. The UKC lets you get more involved with your beagle and when the hunt is over, most often everyone can agree who had the best beagle in that cast that day. (You were there and not on a far away hill.)

[bob huffman]

Since a field trial is man made, it will be as good as the people involved. No more and no less. If they have high standards and understanding of hound work as well as understanding of the game being pursued, it is as good as any triak you will attend. If you happen to draw out with unscrupulous folks or otherwise insincere about the hunt, it can be a less than quality experience. UKC assumes that you can tell when a dog is rough and judge him accordingly. If you follow the rules, it works good.

[AlabamaSwamper]

Thanks guys for all the insight on the UKC. ALso, thanks for keeping this post respectable. There has been alot of bashing on this subject in the past on here and other boards and its good to see that folks can give opinions without that kind of nonsense. I have nothing against UKC. I imagine that someday, it will find its way down to Alabama. Trials are trials to me. I go to them all for the same reason and titles is not one of them. Thanks again.

[Big Dog]

To Mohunter UKC could alleviate some of these problems by making all of their hunts elimination style. For those that don't know UKC runs two formats one that is elimination style. (The top dog in the cast advances and runs against other cast winners) and in the other format The dog with the highest total amount of points overall wins. I personally don't like this because the dog that goes to a honey hole full of rabbits will score more points. If you go to a place where you can't find rabbits you will not get points and therefore not place. The guys in NC do a good job of making sure that all of their hunts are elimination style.

Big Dog

[DarrinG]

Would it not be wonderful if all the differing rules were picked through and 1 super-set of rules were used!!!

I agree AlSwamper, all formats have "holes" in their respective rules. Some I can live with better than others, but all-in-all, I enjoy the fellowship and music at trials more than anything else there!

[Guest]

I have been a UKC trialer for 8 years. I have my own club, and would be glad to answer any questions about the rules. I was reading over some posts about the scoring, yes there are alot of rules that go in to the whole trial, and a good judge will call and enforce these rules. Heres a break down on the scoring. strike points 100, 75, 50, 25. Dogs are awarded strike as they are called by handlers. Strike points are not plussed until 1 of 4 things occur. 1. Dog must score on a line. 2. Majority of cast sees rabbit, and goes to hole. 3. Dogs catch rabbit. 4. Majority of cast sees rabbit and time runs out in the hunt. Speed and Drive points are awarded to dogs that cross the line that is marked after rabbit has circled, in order they cross, 100, 85, 70, 55. A dog does not have to be barking crossing the line, as long as he trials through the line, not into it. It must be obvious a dog is not trialing to not score him. Heres another rule that is utilized alot, any call or non call a hunting judge makes, can be voted on at the time it is called, Majority vote rules on the score card. So lets say dog b was in your judgement to far off line to score, the judge scored him, you ask for a vote, and 2 other handlers agree with you, that dog does not get scored. There are alot of judgement calls in the field a judge makes, some are right some are wrong. The voting process hopefully clears some of the bad calls up, everyone must vote or your scratched from the cast. I could go on forever, any more questions feel free to ask. Hope to see you at UKC trial soon. Harry Warnick...

[Todd Morgan / UKC]

UKC would love to become more established in the South. All you need to do is drop me an e mail and I can give you all of the information you need to get started. Getting in on the ground floor has definite advantages to both you and your club. Right now is the best time to get the ball rolling for the southern states as cool weather is not far away. you can e mail me at tmorgan@ukcdogs.com with your street address and I will send you a packet that expalins everything about starting a UKC Beagle Club. If you e mail me within the next week you will get a message back that says I am out. I am leaving for vacation this afternoon but I will be sure to send you the information as soon as I get back.

If you want to click over to the UKC Beagle message board you can read at the top of the message board about an offer we currently have for all new UKC Beagle Clubs. You can't beat it! http://www.ukcdogs.com

[Alabama John]

I would like to see UKC down here too. I do not see why ARHA-NKC and UKC can't co-exist, have trials on different weekends and share the clubhouses and running grounds, cost, etc.

I feel a lot of trialers would trial in both. I have heard they do share somewhere.

I recommend you find a UKC COONHUNTERS club and bring up the UKC Beagle trials and the sharing of facilities with them. I proposed to some of my friends at a trial of our ARHA LP Beagle Club that we share our facilities and running grounds and also have UKC Beagle trials. I had a call from the president of the ARHA Club and he was pissed and others were pissed until I explained that I was not a recruiter or recruiting for UKC. Several were ready to kick me out of the Club for even making the suggestion. The president when he understood, got the board to agree to let me stay if I would never bring up UKC again, and if I did, I would be gone. I think I am on perpetual probation.

To make matters worse, On the same day, I innocently gave out the only three UKC hats to friends that were given to me by Dale Prunty when I met him in Virginia to pick up two pups. I kept one for myself as they are real good looking sort of couteroy grey hats. Folks down here like CONFEDERATE GREY hats!!! They were in the top of my dog box and that REALLY set some off. They thought I was an UKC recruiter coming down here to screw them up!

I will not rejoin that Club. I feel like an out cast now except for a few old, and some new, loyal friends. I belong to one in Tennessee, that is enough.

[Bev]

Let's see, now how do you say "fools who cut off nose to spite face" in Cherokee?

I can't imagine why a club would turn down an opportunity to have additional hunts of any kind to run dogs and make money for the club. It's their loss.

[DarrinG]

I agree Bev. Thats the stupid-est thing I ever heard.

John, sounds like maybe you'd be better off without that club anyhow. "Eliteist" is not needed in beagle field trials. Even though I may or may not like a particular set of rules from whatever registry, to act as you wrote the club does will do nothing but create divisions between beaglers.

[Joe Robinson]

I agree with Todd Morgan and the others. Why would a club turn down a chance to have more hunts and make more money for their club. The offer that the UKC has for new clubs can not be beat. How much better can you get than FREE!! No field trial or organization is perfect. But at least with the UKC if you get cheated it is your own fault because each person in the cast has a vote in the cast, and the same set of rules to go by. Then if you still can't settle it in the field you bring the cast back to the Master of hounds. I recomend new clubs to try it, You might like it. I think VA. NC SC TN are the fartherest clubs to the south. I am sure Mr Morgan can put you in contact with someone from one of these states to answer questions and get you started.