Registered packs run to a lose? How?

TomMN · Post by **TomMN** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:33 am

John, I believe you and Phillip. I just haven't seen it.
"they are close running, but make no mistakes and no rabbit can stand that for long"
Up here the cottontails will hole up when the pressure gets to be too much. Only the dumb ones get caught. On the other hand, hare can stand that kind of pressure, hour after hour. I have seen my dogs get close enough to sight chase them but they don't catch them. Yours may be able to. I have never seen a hare give out like you are talking about.
Beagleman 973, your hounds would most likely do very well on hare. Give it a try sometime, I'm sure you and your dogs will love chasing those big, hard running rabbits. With fast dogs on a day when they can run good it sounds just like a deer chase. Only difference is they will come back into hearing again after a while if they are on a hare (most of the time).

REBEL · Post by **REBEL** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:11 pm

Beagleman973==I have had and have offspring in WVA that run in the conditions you are talking about-i have a young female in Iowa at the present i will put down with anything in that area,i also have young hounds in Va that will do me proud and one is the off spring of the two females i sold Richard Smoker and than i have beagles in Ky.Here i have both cottontail and swampers and bloodlines from the top bloodlines from Canada and the USA other than my bloodline i created over many years of selective breeding,so your area and conditions are nothing my hounds have not ran in so i can speak with knowledge of the situation and about cottontail,swampers,mountain hare and a little about snowshoe.No one has mention how their hounds run in sand and hot weather,i have friends in Fla that tell me if you do not have quick,fast hounds with extra nose that can take the heat you are not going to run many rabbits there cause the scent will be gone due to the heat so quick the hound can not keep a race going there.
Yes,anyone that wants to run with me are welcome anytime but if you don't bring your best and only want to see my hounds run,i will not do that,only if you bring something to run so we can compare.I have in the past but no more,we run,we run together and release the same number of hounds at the same time.A friend of mine in WVA does this and i have formed the same criteria,that way we both can judge each others hounds.You want to run swampers,cotontail or mountain rabbits we have them here,no snowshoe.

Ted Peercy · Post by **Ted Peercy** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:40 pm

Now I don't know Rebel's dogs or anyone else's dogs on here or what they can do-except Alabama John's. I've been to Osage Lodge below Tuscaloosa and Skyline in Alabama and run with John, once on a 3 day trip. He got Queenie from me. She is his fastest dog. And John, she is AKC registered-Indian Hills and New City. When I got Queenie at a year of age, the guy said she had caught about a dozen rabbits. One summer, I had to quit running her around my kennel because she caught 7, some grown, some not. One spring, she and a pack of beagles were blistering one straight at us in a sight area, and they suddenly stopped barking. One of the dogs swung out, apparently jumped another rabbit(all this within a minute or less) and the other dogs harked in and were off. Queenie came out of that thicket where they quit barking, carrying a rabbit, and went out of sight chasing the other rabbit with that one in her mouth. She had caught 20 some when John got her. Just fact! Now when I've turned my dogs loose with Alabama John, and that rabbit comes through, it will have it's ears pinned back. Ted Peercy-Willow Spring Kennel

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:16 pm

Thanks, Ted and I am sure I gave you credit for my favorite dog on one of my many post on this subject.

Your dogs are not too shabby either and you know they give mine a hard time and take the lead themselves, especially my two favorites, McBlack and Oatmeal, they do not run behind and give my dogs what for(what an exciting mouth on that Oatmeal that any of us would give a lot for) and they were Champions and now Grand Champions which means they have run against Champions only and won first place five times at different trials. That's tough! They know how and can compete as well as excell at gun hunting.

Hunt6, Ted is in middle Tennessee (Mc Minnville area) and I bet would let you run with him to see what we mean. Or, better still, come to their beagle Club at the next trial and it will be posted in The American Beagler and the name is McMinnville Beagle Club and the trial is a Little Pack Trial.

****** To keep the Northern folks wondering more, maybe one of us Southern Boys should tell a real big Beagle whopper and the rest of us swear to it to confuse 'um!!!

Maybe we already have??????

REBEL · Post by **REBEL** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:18 pm

Alabama John--I was running the hounds just before dark last nite and the 2004 derby Indian Hills Majer male was in the pack and the chase went on for app an hour,so thick i had to stay in the clear cuts,yet the hounds were running as if in an open field and when the rabbit was pushed out of the thickness,guess who was leeding the pack--RAZOR--the 11 month old Indian Hills Majer pup,now this may not mean so much to those that do not know the speed of our hounds but to you and i--i feel it has merit.Lets do it again soon-what you think??

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:36 pm

Rebel, we will as soon as I get my strength back. I called R.B. Sester once about 18 months ago and asked him if he knew of anymore like her and was she common to his breeding. He said one comes along like that every once in a while as most of his were not that fast. he invited me to come up and run with Trapper in his own pen, but, I never did.

Maybe she gets it from the New City Dam. I know nothing about them.

I wonder if your pup or pups that run that fast are a throw back like mine or maybe that speed came from the dams, I am not up on breeding enough to know.

Doesn't matter anyway, as long as we like them and I sure believe you have a real prospect coming on. I know he will have all the oppurtunity in the world to be the best he can be. Good Luck!!!

REBEL · Post by **REBEL** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:58 pm

John=I have two females purchased from R.B. 8 week old female pups and one is out of Trapper and R.B. told me the Dam and Sire of the second one,which he said was a black and tan, but i forget,will send you a copy of the pedigree when they arrive,Anthony Johnson is to pick them up,i think,this weeken.R.B.knows i like small and fast,this 11 month old male is a 13" and built right and i was going to purchase a male and female pup from R.B. but he called me back and said the male looked as if he would go over so he offered me a female he was going to keep for himself out of Trapper at no extra cost and he said i would like the two females he felt much better,so i left it up to him.I now own three females and a male with Indian Hills Majer out of R.B.s kennel and hope one of the three females will be a super hound to breed to RAZOR.In the event you ever want to breed to RAZOR there will be no cost to you,nor any male in my kennel.R.B. said i should have no problem making an FC out of RAZOR and if he had been 15" no money could have bought him and that he would not take $2,000.00 for his litter mate brother which is a 15" hound==We may have a good one and may have a bad one--time will tell.I am very anxious to get a young female hound i bought out of Iowa,from what i hear she is going to be number one,got her from Bob Huffman.I have some good ones here-not culls-if you know anyone looking for a rabbit hound.
John-How about the fallow deer at the park you said needed a home?my elk has finished having their calves,one solid white out of four calves and all white cows, so figure the Fallow deer has dropped also,if you wish and you have a phone number you can e-mail it to me.

Hunt6 · Post by **Hunt6** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:19 pm

Alabama John wote
Hunt6, Ted is in middle Tennessee (Mc Minnville area) and I bet would let you run with him to see what we mean. Or, better still, come to their beagle Club at the next trial and it will be posted in The American Beagler and the name is McMinnville Beagle Club and the trial is a Little Pack Trial.
snip

Will do.I've been to Cookeville and Nashville and Bowling Green looking and talking to people.I met some Ala Guys at the the pens that UBGF just put in.Met them at the annual pinic at Bowling Green.Jesse Yates and his sidekick Stretch.What a pair.Enjoyed them and others a lot.I was there with Wayne Thompsom and Howard Long some local friends. .I enjoy meeting hound people and talking dogs no matter the speed they run.Be it med,med fast or fast.Good comes in all speeds.As I said I like em to hang on to it regardless.

Hope you are fit as a fidde soon and back running the beagles.
Hunt6 (David)

Post by **Bev** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:32 pm

Hunt6, have been to the Watertown club, mostly same guys, right Ted? Great bunch of folks! hope to get down that way again. I can stop and see the kinfolk on the way home like I did last time.

Lanelefgren · Post by **Lanelefgren** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:50 am

For those of you interested in the Indian Hills Major, New City lines you might want to post a question to Tim Hackworth over on the BeagleInfo Q&A Board. Tim often posts there. His Woodpont beagle pack have a lot of that breeding. He is a good friend of John New that bred Major and the New City hounds. On Tim's web page is a pic of John. http://www.woodpontbeagles.com

Lefgren-Lane · Post by **Lefgren-Lane** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:00 am

Forgot my username. LOL Got it now. Sorry.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:23 am

Folks this is interesting and i would like to chime in. I am not a field trialer been to a few and it is not my cup of tea but i probably wear out as many boots and chaps as anyone on this board. I have in the past owned alot of the breeding that is being discussed here and some that ain't. I hunt rabbits, hares and swampers every chance i get and will travel to do so but i have to tell you some of what i am reading is disturbing to me and probably the rest of the people out here who really knows what a rabbit dog is and don't care if it has Ch. in fron of it's name. The types of dogs being talked about do exist but believe me they are the exception and far and few between and if we were honest with ourselves our dogs do in fact just plain out loose rabbits sometimes, probably more than we want to admit. I am not ashamed with what i feed and have never seen dogs that i would be afraid to run against but i have to tell you these no loss and catch numbers are not accurate. Chris you have your head screwed on straight and it is nice to see honesty. Mr S.R patch your wisdom also bleeds through on you posts but i don't know where most of these folks are coming from. I'll state this between the north and the south is the state of Wv and it has hares and i hunt them and i will say this without question or reserve.

There is no dog or pack of dogs in this country that if turned out in Wv" i say Wv cause it would be the closest place to all involved in this conversation" that has a hare population that could catch more than 2 or 3 healthy hares in an enire season of hunting and that is hunting everyday. I have been at this game too long to be fooled. If someone can prove me wrong I'll sell every dog I own and play golf cause i will have finally realized that my entire life of raising and training beagle has been in vain.

Brian

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 10:47 am

[size=18][/size] NO TAKERS

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:47 am

Patchman (Brian),

I'll answer you as this seems as you say to disturb you. You efforts with your dogs has not been in vain! You seem to be happy with what you have, and that in itself is success above all.

I inagine that if we ran where you are and under your conditions, our dogs would not do as well as yours.

I or none of our dogs have ever seen or smelled a Hare.

I said on a bad scenting day, we go back home.

Here though, under the conditions I stated, "On a day our dogs can RUN a rabbit", and by saying that I mean physically RUN a rabbit, not walk or trot, the no loss and especially catch numbers were not only accurate, but were very conservative.

Don't even consider buying some golf clubs.

Brian, enjoy your dogs and all that go with them, as I will ours. We are not in competition.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:56 pm

Alabama John,

Good to hear from you! I do like what i have and I only stated the above beacause it is not logical and I stated Wv cause it has a close hare population to you guys in the south. Where can dogs like that be purchased cause i would like some. Now you are not talking to a rookie and i Have hunted hare for the last 15 years. I now hunt patches beacuse after stumling through all the other bloodlines i finally found hounds that run with a knife and fork in their paws. I have hunted this pack for 5 years and will drop them anywhere but i have to tell you i can count all the hares they have caught on one hand and i hare hunt alot.
I am so hung upon this because people who read these posts think they can buy hounds like everyone is talking about and you and i know all it leads to is buyers with sore buts and hard feelings toward the seller.

How much would these dogs bring, if there is that many out there some have to be for sale!

I stated any dog or pack of dogs, heck i don't care if they bring 15 couple packs, and i stated country cause you would have to search the whole country just to find 2 or 3 thay could even come close to my proposal.

I don't want to step on toes i just wat to see the dogs that's all. I'm not an instigater buy my post should be flooded with folks that would like to try it.

People read these posts who are looking for rabbit dogs then spend there hard earned money expecting to get something that's not possible.

This is a good debate and i look forward to replies from others!

Thanks for listening.

The American Beagler Forum

Registered packs run to a lose? How?

John's Dogs