Weaning pups

[stratos]

Is 4 & 1/2 weeks too early to wean a pup?

[CAINCUTTER]

Check my site for my take on weening pups.
http://www.geocities.com/pawpawskennels/DIET.html

[JIMMIE ABSHIRE]

Caincutter pretty neat web page I like the way you mark ur pups with markers . I enjoy looking at deep south setups .

[Bunny Runner]

Are you referring to introducing solids or really weaning from the mother?

If, in fact, you are talking about weaning it from it's mother at 4 1/2 weeks, I'd say, YES, it's too young! Unless, it's a health issue for the pup or the mother, it needs to stay with the bitch until it's at LEAST 6 weeks old (and 8 weeks is better).

[Windkist]

Are you referring to introducing solids or really weaning from the mother?

If, in fact, you are talking about weaning it from it's mother at 4 1/2 weeks, I'd say, YES, it's too young! Unless, it's a health issue for the pup or the mother, it needs to stay with the bitch until it's at LEAST 6 weeks old (and 8 weeks is better).

I have to say that in 20 years of breeding dogs I have never had a bitch want to or nurse puppies until 8 weeks of age. We notice when the bitches get antsy about nursing which is usually about 4-5 weeks old and this is when we start to introduce puppy food that we make into a mush for the puppies. I've not seen a beagle puppy that didnt' dive right in and eat. By no later than 6 weeks the mother is completely weaned from them and once she is dried up we do allow her to be with them if she desires.

Leah

[mike crabtree]

Not saying my way is right or wrong, but I have always weaned pups at 5 weeks completely.

[ANTHONY KERR]

I agree with you Mike. I think wet gruel at three weeks with Mama out little bits at a time. Mama in at night only the Fourth week. Mama out all the way at five weeks. By that time Mama is ready to get away.
Anthony

[xdawg]

personally,

i start giving the pups a chance to eat something other then what momma has to offer at about 3-4 weeks of age.... once i've witnessed all pups eating and drinking well i start to leave mom out longer and longer until the day she doesn't go back in....

-Jack

[Windkist]

There really is no right or wrong way. Whatever works for us and the puppies. I've fed puppies at 3 1/2 weeks many times. If they are ready for food then they should eat ;-)

Leah

[Bunny Runner]

"Weaning" from mothers milk is only part of the weaning process. When I stated that "it needs to stay with the bitch until it's at LEAST 6 weeks old (and 8 weeks is better).", I was referring to the entire process from introduction to separation.
I agree that introducing pups to solids at 3 - 4 weeks is appropriate, but that the pups need to remain with the litter and mother for 6 (preferably 8) weeks. They are in a very important stage at this point and learn alot from the interaction with her and the other pups. As a matter of fact, scientific studies have proven that puppies removed from the litter and mother too early can suffer from all sorts of behavioral problems.

Here's some info (it's also taught in my college text books on animal behavior):

EMOTIONAL, PHYSICAL, AND MENTAL DEVELOPMENT OF PUPPIES
Puppies–who doesn’t love the sweet breath and attitude of a wiggly, adorable pup? But, puppies grow up
quick. And to keep them sweet and willing, owners must understand a little bit about the growth and development of
their charges.
The following is a general discussion of critical periods in a dog’s emotional, mental, and physical
development. If a critical learning period is missed, although a dog may be trained, its basic and natural reactions are
permanently affected and its full potential will never be reached. Missing one or all of these periods may cause a
puppy to become emotionally and mentally handicapped in its social interactions with other animals and humans–for
life.
Puppies cannot be taught anything prior to 21 days. They need only to be kept clean, warm, dry, (between 80
and 90 degrees) and allowed to nurse and sleep. These needs are usually met by the dam (mother dog.)
On average, puppies open their eyes somewhere between 11 to 19 days, with 13 days being average.
Puppies cannot hear anything before three weeks of age. Puppies begin to walk unsteadily on the 18th day; some as
early as 12 days. From 21 to 49 days, playing and play fighting begins.
At approximately three weeks of age, puppies begin to go toward sights, sounds, or smells, and their
tendency to “whine” decreases. All their sense organs are now functional. The puppy is no longer dependent on reflex
responses to hunger, cold, and touch. It can see, hear, smell, taste, and feel. They can eliminate independently and
will normally leave their nesting and play area to eliminate. Their memory develops. By three weeks of age, their
brains start to take on adult characteristics. By seven weeks, they have "adult" brains and "mature" brain waves are
first recorded.
At this three week stage, great changes take place mentally and physically to puppies. They find sudden and
unexpected stimulation emotionally startling. Any additional noise, confusion, or rough handling can cause puppies to
become "fear imprinted." Puppies should not be subjected to excessive stimulation during this period, as they are
having to cope with several newly developed senses at once. What a puppy learns during its third week becomes
fixed and will influence its attitudes toward man, other animals, and its environment, throughout its life.
A critical socialization period begins at three weeks, and lasts to four months of age. A puppy's basic
character is set during this time. Puppies need to interact with humans and other animals in a variety of places
and situations and need individual attention during this period.
Puppies should not be weaned or adopted before seven weeks of age. Weaning before the seventh week
may cause noisy or nervous behavior for life. Puppies need their litter mates until seven weeks to learn to interact well
with other dogs. Taken before seven weeks, puppies miss critical socialization periods, and may show less interest in
normal dog activities for life.
Puppies adopted after seven weeks may pick fights with other dogs as adults. However, neither adopting a
puppy before seven weeks or after eight weeks will have such a drastic or negative effect that you should never
consider adopting a puppy outside of seven weeks. There are simply too many other factors to be considered when
choosing a puppy for this to be the deciding factor.
At seven weeks, puppies' brains are fully developed. This is the best time to adopt a puppy. It has had an
opportunity to interact adequately with both its mother and litter mates and time to learn the socialization skills critical
to its future interaction with humans and other animals. If weaning and transfer occur simultaneously, the best time to
adopt is at eight weeks.
Research shows aggression develops in puppies that do not stay with their mother long enough and also in
puppies that remain too long. Puppies taken at the end of the fourth week and given a lot of human attention may
become so socialized to humans they do not care for other dogs. Some identify with humans so strongly that they
express sexual desires toward humans rather than dogs, such dogs can be difficult or impossible to breed.
Positive training and gentle discipline can start at eight weeks. With proper training, puppies can be expected
to obey every command they have been taught. While housebreaking can begin at 8 weeks, do not expect immediate
success. Generally speaking, up to 8 months, a puppy can be expected to “hold” eliminations for one hour per month
of age. In other words, a three month old puppy should only be expected to wait three hours MAXIMUM time between
eliminations.
From 8 to 12 weeks also marks the beginning of another fear imprinting period.
From 12 to 16 weeks, puppies cut teeth and declare their independence. The puppies decide who the “pack
leader” is going to be. It is critical to establish yourself as leader during this period. Nothing helps a puppy learn
appropriate dog behavior towards humans more than simply taking it away from its litter mates and having a pleasant
session of one on one play, training, or work daily.
Although these important critical learning periods occur, one should never interpret this to mean that a dog
cannot be trained after these periods. Dogs can be trained throughout their lives and, if the training is done properly,
dogs enjoy the process. Dogs that have no defined purpose are often bored and boredom can lead to behavior
problems. Training is an important way for your dog to express its energy, intelligence, and instincts.
© Copyright 2001 Responsible Animal Owners of Tennessee, Inc. - Permission granted to copy and distribute in its entirety as is.

[gus]

My Opinion:
I once thought people wrote books to share knowledge. Now I know most are written to make money, to qualify for a degree, or advance their careers.
Most of the information given on bulletin boards seem to be from true life experiences.
The information above about puppy development may have some merit but a lot of it is pure BS or opinion. I have no idea the breed of dogs on which the author did the research but I don't believe it was on beagles.
I have two litters of pups outside that are eight and six weeks of age. They have all their teeth. They have been eating dry Diamond Dog food since they were five weeks of age. In fact most of my pups over the last few years will quit eating the soaked food and eat dry food instead at about five weeks. These pups have not been with their mother since they started earing dry dog food.
In respect to social development, I don't think there is set rule. I have raised litters in which the pups were very friendly until I started picking them up for worming or vacinations. Then they began to hesitate to approach me if the cage door was open. They would come to the wire very friendly and lick my hand if the door was closed. According to the expert these dogs would be scarred for life. Instead, once I started taking them to the field, at about five months, some of the pups that displayed shy tendacies at three months were the easiest to control and handle in the field.
That has been my experience.
As was mentioned above, some pups will eat dog food at an earlier age than others. Small litters in which the bitch supplies as much milk as the pups demand seem to begin to eat later. If a small bitch has six or more pups, the pups probably need a suppliment starting at about three weeks. Once the pups start eating you can make your decision as to when to permanantly take away the bitch.

[Bunny Runner]

Gus,

The critical periods that are described above apply to all canines development. They are NOT breed-specific. The information above was originally taken from a college text book on animal behavior and then put into the article quoted above. I have the exact text book that was used for some of the information which I found very helpful in understanding canine behavior.
In regards to cutting teeth, they mean the permanent teeth, not the milk teeth.
As far as writing books to make money etc., yes, there are some that write books for these purposes, but how in the world are we ever going to learn ANYTHING with out the assistance of text books that are written with a scientific basis? I don't discount any one's personal experience, but I also search and learn from science.
Collecting information is an excellent way to learn and then apply the knowledge you have acquired.

Sometime it's hard for me to understand how some people can be so set in the ways, that they just don't want to open their mind to any thing new.

[gus]

Gus,


Sometime it's hard for me to understand how some people can be so set in the ways, that they just don't want to open their mind to any thing new.

It's difficult for me to uderstand how anyone with life experiences cannot differentiate between proffessor speak and real life. There is an old saying, those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach,manage.

The article did not specify which set of teeth it was referring to. Since we were talking about puppies learning to eat food, it makes sense to me that they were referring to their first teeth. Once puppies cut their first teeth they can eat hard food and then become a nuisance to the mother. I've seen bitches growl, snap at the pups, and run away because the pups teeth were painful to her teats.

I don't know how old you are or your life experiences. Most people tend to read material that reinforces their basic beliefs. I have a BS Ddegree also. I remember a psychology coarse required for my degree. The professor required that each of his students purchase a textbook written by him at the university press. I wonder if he wanted to impart knowledge or suppliment his salary? At a a rate of 150 students per quarter at $8.50 per paper back book that was written at the university press, at tax payers expense, I suspect greed may have been the motive. I learned a lesson in economics from that psychology professer, but I don't remember a darned thing that was in his book. Hmmm, maybe there was the lession in human behavior he was trying to teach. Maybe that is why I am so skeptical about writers.

[Windkist]

My Opinion:
I once thought people wrote books to share knowledge. Now I know most are written to make money, to qualify for a degree, or advance their careers.
Most of the information given on bulletin boards seem to be from true life experiences.
The information above about puppy development may have some merit but a lot of it is pure BS or opinion. I have no idea the breed of dogs on which the author did the research but I don't believe it was on beagles.
I have two litters of pups outside that are eight and six weeks of age. They have all their teeth. They have been eating dry Diamond Dog food since they were five weeks of age. In fact most of my pups over the last few years will quit eating the soaked food and eat dry food instead at about five weeks. These pups have not been with their mother since they started earing dry dog food.
In respect to social development, I don't think there is set rule. I have raised litters in which the pups were very friendly until I started picking them up for worming or vacinations. Then they began to hesitate to approach me if the cage door was open. They would come to the wire very friendly and lick my hand if the door was closed. According to the expert these dogs would be scarred for life. Instead, once I started taking them to the field, at about five months, some of the pups that displayed shy tendacies at three months were the easiest to control and handle in the field.
That has been my experience.
As was mentioned above, some pups will eat dog food at an earlier age than others. Small litters in which the bitch supplies as much milk as the pups demand seem to begin to eat later. If a small bitch has six or more pups, the pups probably need a suppliment starting at about three weeks. Once the pups start eating you can make your decision as to when to permanantly take away the bitch.

Gus,

I have raised at least 100 puppies just the way you describe. It is my opinon and experience that 99% of a puppies personality is genetic and they are born to be what they are. I've raised litters where one was shy and the rest totally outgoing and full of themselves and they were raised all exactly the same. I've been around enough to know that being with their mother after weaning does nothing but, pi*s off the mother ;-)

Leah

[Stumbo's Beagles]

We all do things different, if we did the same as other this ol world would be dull and boring. Here is what i did with my litter. I started to indroduce food mixed with water at about 3-4 weeks. I also gave the mother a chewable table daily for nursing bitches. There was 7 in the litter. I did close to what XDAWG said, I left the door open and when mom wanted to go in the room with the pups she could. If she didnt want to go in there she didn't have to. I left them with their mom until 8 weeks old, and thats when I started selling them. I also gave them 2 shots during this time and wormed them 5 times. At 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6,7,&8 weeks. I didnt count the number of times that she let the pups nurse but I can tell you that right up til the day I started selling the pups, the mom would still go in the room and let them nurse at least once a day. I guess I kinda let her decide if she wanted to let them feed or not. I think it was S.R.PATCH that wrote do you remember the days of old when the bitch would go under the shed and dig her a hole and have her pups. Well I kinda did that I let her decide what she wanted to do, if she wanted away from them she could do that and if she wanted to be near them or nurse she could do that to. Like I said we all do different things and I for 1 am not a expert so I'm sure i messed up but I will be open to read all the stuff I can so that I might learn something new. I hope this helps.