Jumpdogs

blunder · Post by **blunder** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:39 am

All of my Beagles will jump a rabbit when they stumble into it, but that is not what I considder a jumpdog.

tom

Slaux · Post by **Slaux** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:22 am

Certainly this trait is genetic. I wouldn't keep a dog unless it was a decent jump dog at least, but it's hard to measure unless you run in an area with very little game. My three best jump dogs ever, the ones that could find a hare just about anywhere are all related in three generations that I bred, being Grandfather, Mother, and Son. Certainly there is no amount of training out there to enable one to "make" a good jump dog, but a poor handler might be able to ruin a potentially great jump dog by over handling them; calling them on track all the time, busting the brush for them excessively, etc. The really great ones are smart, and although they are busy trying to find that bunny will check in with you every so often, "often" being maybe every hour or so. These "great" jump dogs don't necessarily cover alot of ground in a short time, rather they are more methodical, yet efficient in working cover and are blessed with a good nose and brains, finding an old scent (often times from the night before) and following it, most of the time mute or barking only here and there until game is jumped. My best jump dog ever, Tippy did this all the time and would often jump hare in habitat that you swear you'd never find one. If she didn't find a hare in a square mile area, and within a relatively short period of time there wasn't one there. Alot of times these dogs are following old scent from a bunny that is "meandering" here and there and back and fourth, taking his sweet old time as he is not being pursued and other hounds in the pack may not even be able to smell the game until it is jumped. Consequently often these same hounds can be eliminated in a trial setting for being mouthy by a "too quick on the gun" judge, and yes some of them may be a bit quick to open, but if given the time will usually produce the game.

mud · Post by **mud** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:15 pm

I agree with Tommy G on his thoughts.I have owned what I consider 2 outstanding jump dogs in 30 years of rabbit hunting.Both were grade dogs females.I think exposure taking dogs providing opportunity are important but the best ones I have ever seen it seemed to just come natural. True jump dogs seem to just make a rabbit.I owned a Northway male out of Sampson a few years back.This dog hunted like a demon.Shred every brush pile.Tore up all over.He would sling blood all over himself every trip.Anybody would be impressed with his hunting ability.I took him every trip We killed about 200 rabbits that year.He might have jumped 10 rabbits all year.We owned some above average jump dogs that year.They made him look silly.I never gave up on him all year.Sold him at years end showed the fellow in the field what he would do.He was so impressive in his hunting that the guy bought him anyway.He called me back and said this dog jumps no rabbits.Go figure.Extreme hunt does not always make jump dogs. Good topic good conversation.

blunder · Post by **blunder** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:35 pm

Question for yall,,, are the very best jumpdogs air scenters or ground scenters?????
tom

THALL · Post by **THALL** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:15 pm

Genetics is where it's at, but i've taken dogs that were hunted without shooting rabbits in front of them and kill several rabbits in front of them, then they seen to start hunting harder. hunt them on a ditch dump where they have to get in the thick stuff. you can inprove a dogs ability to jump rabbits, but some are just naturals and some won't ever jump many.

tommyg · Post by **tommyg** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:01 pm

There is alot of difference in a Hard hunting Hound and a Jump dog,Ive seen it over the years. A hard hunter looks good but the Jump dog puts meat on the table. I'm by far no expert but have seen my share of great Jump dogs and have owned 2. A good jump dog is Jumping Rabbits not being a flashy hunter,they are preditors like there ancestors,trying to catch game,not letting every thing in the brush know their hunting it,they are stealthy and sneaky and produce. They go hunting with bad intentions. If you have a true jump hound watch there actions when they hunt they are different. Just my opinion.

blunder · Post by **blunder** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:07 pm

If you have a true jump hound watch there actions when they hunt they are different. Just my opinion.

That's what I was getting at with the question above.

tom

gus · Post by **gus** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:17 pm

I don't know if they are air scenters or ground scenters but I have seen good jump dogs be trotting along then run about then feet and a rabbit will pop out. I think they have a good brain that understands the scent they are smelling. They also seem to understand that if there is ground scent there is a rabbit near by and will not quit until the rabbit is up. They're dedicated to finding rabbits. Many of the hard hunters will detect rabbit scent, stop and smell, then take off over the horizon. They don't have a clue about what it takes to get the rabbit up.
I once had a male, Little Ireland and Show bred that hunted like a wild dog, into every brushpile and likely place a rabbit would hide. I have seen him flush rabbits and never knew it because he didn't have the brain to realize the rabbit was up.

DarkCornerKennel · Post by **DarkCornerKennel** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:31 pm

I apparently wasn't clear with an earlier question so here goes. It is now summertime. I'm running a 9 month old every morning, sometimes with other dogs and sometimes solo. Is the pup missing part of her experience/education because she smells night tracks every time she is ran?

Chuck Terry · Post by **Chuck Terry** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:41 am

The good jump dogs I have seen have two basic styles: the ones that covers a lot of ground "winding" (bird dog style) and the ones that move slower and more mehodically but always seem to go quickly to the right spot. Of course, a dog that covers alot of ground may be "busy" but not very productive. Also, some very thorough hunters never find much because they do not seem to know where to look and waste too much time in unproductive areas. The best jumpdog is the one that consistently jumps the majority of the rabbits every time out - regardless!

gus · Post by **gus** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:16 pm

Dark Corner don't worry about it. You are doing the right thing. If the pup has a brain and isn't too sensitive to briars she will figure out where the rabbits are once fall gets here. They don't develop their full potential for two or three years andyway. In fact, they keep improving as jump dogs for several years. I think that is why some beaglers believe it is their training methods that develop those good jump dogs.

They refuse to believe the dog would have developed their instincts to their full potential, if given a chance, no matter matter how strong or weak those instincts.

3B Kennel · Post by **3B Kennel** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:17 pm

In my opinion,and this is just my opinion.A great jumpdog is slightly hardheaded and more than a little independent.I am fortunate to have two at this timeout of White river big jake that will find a rabbit if there is one around and not waste time doing it.
Alot of people try to put to much handle on a young dog if he had any hunt in em at all that will take it out. after the dog is hunting good and just is too independent then put handle on him .To many people are to quick on the button and punish a dog for hunting.that said if you breed junk to junk chances are you will get more of the same.The handler cant make a bad dog good but he sure can ruin a good one.
Bill Mills

pete young · Post by **pete young** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:33 pm

I think Greg H hit the nail on the head. A good jumpdog uses all of it's senses; sight, hearing and Nose. The best jumpdogs I have ever seen use all 3. We own the best one that we have ever owned right now. She is always busy and is always alert. I would love to have another one in the pipeline to replace her because she is 7 years old now and has only a few good years left. If you guys figure out how to reproduce those qualities in a dog, please let me know, because I don't know anyone that has a surefire method of reproducing a jumpdog. If they did, we would all have a kennel full of them. It seems to be the one thing that everyone is always looking for and you never see a good one for sale.

DarkCornerKennel · Post by **DarkCornerKennel** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:35 pm

I'm really enjoying this. A man invited me to go running a couple of years ago. We drove to his running grounds, parked the trucks, and he surprised me when he positioned a camp stool about ten yards from the trucks before he turned the dogs loose. He smiled and said his legs hurt if he stood long. He brought two dogs, a young dog and a grand champion that was a good check dog and a true jumpdog. He runs 3 or 4 days a week and spends 90% of his time on that stool. After seeing his dogs hunt and reading this thread I now wonder about that stool. Does this guy have leg problems or does he know of its importance? We've ran a lot together since then and every time out its set the stool, turn the dogs loose, let them jump and run and when they come back in we'll move down the logging road a piece and set the stool and let the dogs do their thing again. In my original post I said if 10 people responded to the thread and all of them had one thing in common in the developement of a true jumpdog it would be interesting. While reading each post the word "she" kept coming up. It appears theres a whole lot more female jumpdogs than male. Does this mean that starting with a female pup will improve my chances? I think it does. I also wonder about kenneling the dog in its learning years. The friend mentioned above alows his dogs to have the run of his fenced back yard. My jumpdog was kenneled in the same manner for her first 15 months. A coincidence? Maybe.

Hare Hunter · Post by **Hare Hunter** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:15 am

Dark Corner, I believe more jump dogs are female because they don't have to mark every tree and piece of brush for 50 yard circle when you let them out of the box. My best is a female but the two adult males are very good jump dogs. They jump out of the truck and the first one to open draws the others, that's why I can't stand a mouthy dog, mine will honor another dog that opens, if it is cold trailing then it aint jumpimg. JMHO. Hare