"Good Breeders"

[blunder]

desire to put good gundogs in good homes).

This is the only place I am having a problem because "good home" lacks deffinition.
Do you mean "your home"
Do you mean "only hunting homes"
Do you mean "only homes of people that love dogs"
Do you mean "only homes of people that run field trials"

Where does "good homes" start and stop????
Rest assured, there are lots of us that "screen" puppy buyers, if that is what you mean.
You can also rest assured that I will not place a puppy that I do not think will be a good hunter in a hunting home, or a puppy that I do not think is a show prospect in a show home. "Pet quality" puppys go to pet homes.

) It starts with being an avid rabbit hunter (hare, cottontail, or swamper’s).

There are a gajillion other things to do with dogs besides hunting rabbits, are you saying that someone must be a rabbit hunter inorder to be a good Beagle breeder???? Sorry but I will say BS to that idea because I know lots of fantastic breeders that have never hunted anything in their lives. Just because I hunt, and you hunt, does not make hunting a requirement for being a dog breeder.


tom

[Keystone Kid]

desire to put good gundogs in good homes).

This is the only place I am having a problem because "good home" lacks deffinition.
Do you mean "your home"
Do you mean "only hunting homes"
Do you mean "only homes of people that love dogs"
Do you mean "only homes of people that run field trials"

Where does "good homes" start and stop????
Rest assured, there are lots of us that "screen" puppy buyers, if that is what you mean.
You can also rest assured that I will not place a puppy that I do not think will be a good hunter in a hunting home, or a puppy that I do not think is a show prospect in a show home. "Pet quality" puppys go to pet homes.

) It starts with being an avid rabbit hunter (hare, cottontail, or swamper’s).

There are a gajillion other things to do with dogs besides hunting rabbits, are you saying that someone must be a rabbit hunter inorder to be a good Beagle breeder???? Sorry but I will say BS to that idea because I know lots of fantastic breeders that have never hunted anything in their lives. Just because I hunt, and you hunt, does not make hunting a requirement for being a dog breeder.


tom

Here is my direct quote from my last post:

“3) Lastly, the most important part; putting good gundog beagles in the appropriate homes. Try your best not to let a good hunt/trial dog go to just a gundog/pet home. They need to be campaigned in the circuits.”

What I mean is that a good breeder will put quality hunt/trial dogs in hunt/trial dog homes. If the dogs are hunting/pet quality they also try to put them in hunting/pet homes. This is how you attempt to better the breed.

I other words, if I breed one of my bitches (which are all sound gundogs, not brood bitches) to a national champion I’m not going to let anyone of the pups in that litter go to other homes besides hunt/trial dog homes. Now if I still have the dogs one to two years down the road and I see they are not going to cute-it in the particular format I run in, then I would consider selling them to hunting/pet quality homes.

Since I’ve had my “bitch line” since 1984 I rarely get just a “pet quality” beagle. Over 22 years of selective breeding really helps prevent poor traits being produced.



Tom,

Your also taking what I say “a large part out of context”.

I said, “It starts with being an avid rabbit hunter (hare, cottontail, or swamper’s).” That’s not all that makes a good breeder.

[Cazadora]

Keystone: Where do you get your statistics? Do you have documentation to back up your statement?

I for one as a breeder of beagles take offence at this statement. I do study my dogs, study other dogs, and I don't always look to the field trial ch's to better my line. I look for what I need in my breeding program.

Blunder Well Said!

There is many cases where a breeder cannot place an excellent hound in a hunting home. Shoot there is times you can't even give em away even if they was top notch. God forbid if it wasn't a "BIG NAME" dog line that he came from.

TC Well Said! I agree with you 100% Same with Xdawg.... Keystone ya got to come up with somethin to back yerself up bud.....

[blunder]

Keystone Kid
Rather than answer that myself, I decided to let a friend do it for me.
Without a doubt Ed and his wife Judy have owned, bred, and trialed many of the top producing dogs ever,,, for any breed.
Here is Ed's opinion on placing pups

Sometimes expensive puppies are beyond the financial reach of some potentially very good FT homes, so sellers often sell them just to sell them.

Contrary to popular belief expensive puppies do not always land in (what are conceived to be) the best field trial homes. Also unless the seller knows tons of people how could they know just how good or bad a home might be. Everyone starts somewhere and there are plenty of examples of highly successful field trail dogs who were their owner's first dog and often the best they ever owned.

We sold a Maxx X Ms female from the first breeding to a man who had previously owned a dog sired by Percy, he was very upfront about the fact that this was to be his hunting dog. She will soon be 9, she has a fabulous home, and she has hunted all over North America. What better life could a breeder hope for one of their puppies?

I would point out that quite often that pup that we send to the high roller field trial home/show home will get culled within 6 months, and then end up where ever. (Do you sell your pups on a contract with a buy-back clause??)

Your also taking what I say “a large part out of context”.

I said, “It starts with being an avid rabbit hunter (hare, cottontail, or swamper’s).” That’s not all that makes a good breeder.

No,,,,,,,,, I didn't take that out of context at all,,,,, what I said is that is NOT where it all starts, that is only where it all started for you.

For me, it all started when my dad made the mistake of taking me to a field trial at the ripe ole age of 8, that was 57 years ago, and I have been running dogs of one kind or another ever since. Didn't have a thing to do with hunting rabbits.

tom

[Keystone Kid]

“This post was a test.”

It’s about like I thought. I expected to take flack from about 95% of the Beaglers. I wasn’t trying to make friends with this post.

I have been involved with dog legislation for 3+ years in Indiana, anywhere from the Indiana Department Of Natural Resources, to my hometown of Marion Indiana. By not breeding ethically with our hunting beagles we’re adding fuel to the fire. Animal rights activists such as HSUS (Humane Society of the United States), The Doris Day League, & PEDA are eagerly waiting to help take our rights away. The breed of the beagle is one of the highest over populated dog breeds in this country. So part for these reasons, we need to be much more selective as “Breeders of Beagles”.

If I sell a weaned pups to a Field Trial/Hunting home, yes I will by that pup back if It doesn’t cute-it in the field trial circuit. Then they might go to Hunting/pet homes.

Very rarely do beagles out of my kennel make it to just a “pet home”. There are plenty of beagles in the local animal shelter that need good homes. They can fit that bill, and they cost little if nothing to obtain them. It also saves a life when you adopt a beagle from a “shelter”. Many animal shelters contact me quite frequently asking my assistance helping them place beagles. So in little time “I can always find someone a pet beagle for FREE”.


Grant County Breeder's & Pet Owner's Association
Region II Director, Indiana Beaglers Alliance
Heasley's Keystone Sports
James W. Heasley
3912 S. Felton
Marion, IN 46953
H(765) 674-3791
C(765) 661-4597
jheasley@indy.rr.com

[JIMMIE ABSHIRE]

desire to put good gundogs in good homes).

This is the only place I am having a problem because "good home" lacks deffinition.
Do you mean "your home"
Do you mean "only hunting homes"
Do you mean "only homes of people that love dogs"
Do you mean "only homes of people that run field trials"

Where does "good homes" start and stop????
Rest assured, there are lots of us that "screen" puppy buyers, if that is what you mean.
You can also rest assured that I will not place a puppy that I do not think will be a good hunter in a hunting home, or a puppy that I do not think is a show prospect in a show home. "Pet quality" puppys go to pet homes.

) It starts with being an avid rabbit hunter (hare, cottontail, or swamper’s).

There are a gajillion other things to do with dogs besides hunting rabbits, are you saying that someone must be a rabbit hunter inorder to be a good Beagle breeder???? Sorry but I will say BS to that idea because I know lots of fantastic breeders that have never hunted anything in their lives. Just because I hunt, and you hunt, does not make hunting a requirement for being a dog breeder.


tom

Here is my direct quote from my last post:

“3) Lastly, the most important part; putting good gundog beagles in the appropriate homes. Try your best not to let a good hunt/trial dog go to just a gundog/pet home. They need to be campaigned in the circuits.”

What I mean is that a good breeder will put quality hunt/trial dogs in hunt/trial dog homes. If the dogs are hunting/pet quality they also try to put them in hunting/pet homes. This is how you attempt to better the breed.

I other words, if I breed one of my bitches (which are all sound gundogs, not brood bitches) to a national champion I’m not going to let anyone of the pups in that litter go to other homes besides hunt/trial dog homes. Now if I still have the dogs one to two years down the road and I see they are not going to cute-it in the particular format I run in, then I would consider selling them to hunting/pet quality homes.

Since I’ve had my “bitch line” since 1984 I rarely get just a “pet quality” beagle. Over 22 years of selective breeding really helps prevent poor traits being produced.



Tom,

Your also taking what I say “a large part out of context”.

I said, “It starts with being an avid rabbit hunter (hare, cottontail, or swamper’s).” That’s not all that makes a good breeder.

Keystone
just a question . Will you cull or give them away ?

[Keystone Kid]

[/quote]Keystone
just a question . Will you cull or give them away ? [/quote]I assume by the term “cull” you mean put down or kill the dog. For that is the common definition in the dog world of “cull”. So my answer is NO, I do not cull that many.

For your other part of your question “do I give them away” I’m not sure how to answer that. I said I give/find homes for all the beagles from the shelter for FREE. I thought that answered that.

[mike crabtree]

I wanna be a good breeder when I grow up Hick-up.

[blunder]

The breed of the beagle is one of the highest over populated dog breeds in this country.

Absolutly not true, not even close.

Since I’ve had my “bitch line” since 1984 I rarely get just a “pet quality” beagle. Over 22 years of selective breeding really helps prevent poor traits being produced.

That only means that you have absolutly no knowlage of what you are doing, and can't tell pet quality from championship quality. From even the best of breedings to have half the litter finish would be a mirical. Hasn't happened often enough to bother getting both hands out of your pockets inorder to keep track.

digging yourself a hole my friend

tom

[mike crabtree]

The Opinion of a good breeder can vary greatly with Opinion.

Show Dog breeders in my opinion arent good breeders. not saying they arent good people. They are too focused on looks.

UGBF breeders arent good breeders to me, because I hate that Style of dog....


I will in the next year breed to a young male of mine that I really like, he isnt line bred, so to many I am not a good breeder.


What I am saying is breeding only has to suit the person doing it. If you dont like what they are breeding stay away from it.

Hick- up.

[beagler282]

I think all breeders should be up front and honest with themselves and people they sell dogs to or let breed to one of their stud dogs.Every dog has faults and when someone ask about a stud dog or the sire/dam on a litter of pups they should not only tell the good traits but also list the bad ones.Breeders should always have a plan or goal in mind when breeding.It's about taking 2 dogs and having a reason for breeding the two to try and make dogs as good if not better than the parents.People don't have to trial to understand dogs but they need to run behind the dogs they have to findout what their traits are.I can tell you everything about my dogs.The good and the bad.So when I breed to my females I try and match up the traits that will better my litter of pups.If someone wants to breed to one of hounds I can tell you what traits they throw in their pups.Whether it's line breeding or outcrossing people should have a goal to better the breed.This is not a money making business and dogs should not be bred to make money.Breed to better the hounds and don't breed because the pedigree looks good.We all want a superior hound and the people buying them want the same.

[Randy Phipps]

Seriously though guys. Have you ever heard of anyone becoming rich or famous by being a breeder of beagle gundogs . I haven't!! Most of your good breeders will tell you that it is their love of the hounds and trying to sustain or better the breed for future generations. Normally the proceeds from puppy sells go back into their breeding programs (dog food, housing, studfees etc)I take my hat off to these guys for all their time and money they are investing in the future, in the hopes that my son will be able to find one as good or better than what I hunt with. As far as the pet home; most beagles bred for gundogs have such a strong hunting instinct that I wouldn't recommend them to any non hunting home. Just my opinion or two cents worth !!!

[blunder]

Seriously though guys. Have you ever heard of anyone becoming rich or famous by being a breeder of beagle gundogs . I haven't!! Most of your good breeders will tell you that it is their love of the hounds and trying to sustain or better the breed for future generations. Normally the proceeds from puppy sells go back into their breeding programs (dog food, housing, studfees etc)I take my hat off to these guys for all their time and money they are investing in the future, in the hopes that my son will be able to find one as good or better than what I hunt with. As far as the pet home; most beagles bred for gundogs have such a strong hunting instinct that I wouldn't recommend them to any non hunting home. Just my opinion or two cents worth !!!

You are aware that "3xNFC Candlewood Tanks A Lot" was sold by Mary Howley for $265,000.00, and that "Lotties" pups were then sold for $6,000.00 each. Of course you do know that "2xNAFC-FC-2xCNAFC Ebonstar Lean Mac" now goes for $25,000.00 a pop from the supply of frozen collected before he died.
Shouldn't judge only by what you see in your own little neighborhood. You would be amazed by what goes on out there in the big bad dog world.

tom

[TheBman]

Who are some of the people that you would currently consider to be "top" breeders. What makes their program standout from all the others.

Brent

[New York Hillbilly]

This is unbelievable to me! Who is to sit in judgement of who is a good breeder and who is not and what kind of Egomaniac appoints himself to sit at the head of that table? All I can say is most folks I know breed what they feed if they are happy with what they have, and may add to the mix on occassion to keep things going or interesting. In my opinion anyone who feels they have a lock on the "truth" or think from some lofty self created perch, can guide the rest of us idiots in the hunting beagle world, I say get some therapy. And for the record, again in my most humble opinion...anyone who spends 265,000 dollars (did i read that right) on a beagle or any other hound...has far more dollars than.....um.."sense". (Pun intended... )
Peace.......
NYH