speed?

[johny]

Stumbo, Mid-West trials are mostly SPO format with an occasional Large Pack trial. The format of the trial doesn't set a standard type of running style, the association does however. We could have a brace trial in the Mid-West Assoc., but I seriously doubt the dogs would walk a line. I think a brace trial with gundogs would be awesome, but difficult to accomplish due to time and judging constraints.

[J.B.M.]

BJK, I said "some folks", not everyone. I know plenty of beaglers who know the difference between a fast hound and a rough hound, but i also know plenty who don't. I've seen some really fast hounds with good control. I once owned a hound called Cold Fork Gunner Patch that had a lot of foot and excellent line control. I've seen him make a ninety degree turn so fast that he would lose his footing. He was a dominant hound and was truly a once in a lifetime hound for me. He died at age three and only sired a couple of litters. He produced well for me, but nothing the caliber he was. Another hound that comes to mind is Don's Katie Cooper Patch. She was a lightning fast 13'' bitch that ran with her head up and could really lock on to a rabbit. By the way, I'm not plugging for Patch hounds here, that's just what I mostly run with...I'm just saying that I know there are fast hounds out there that can run a rabbit.

[THALL]

thanks guys. i was begining to think i'm stupid. I can take a dog thats a little rough, but there's always those guys that say a dogs rough just because he is fast. Fast isn't rough.

[gus]

Well, I run dogs just about as fast as anyone and they have very good line control and they seldom catch rabbits. That has everything to do with the cover I run in. Fast beagles aren't fast in multifloria rose, but rabbits are. I have never seen a Beagle run a rabbit down from behind, my Brittnays do, but not a Beagle. I don't understand the logic of the medium speed dogs catching rabbits. DOES NOT COMPUTE!

Carl Lewis was once the fastest man in the world yet he never won a marathon? Does that compute? Hounds are not bred for speed they run marathons. If they keep the rabbit tracks between their legs at a steady pace for a long period of time the rabbit will get slower and slower. It will then become elusive and use all its tricks. The rabbit herders will ususally lose at this stage of the game. Some beaglers, to save face will say it went to ground. If the hole is not marked it probably didn't go to ground. Eventually if the beagle stays on the line, whether it be fast or medium speed, if the rabbit did not go into a hole, the rabbit will be caught.
When a rabbit is run down in this manner he will be stiff, as if rigor mortis has set in, even though he was just caught.

[ANTHONY KERR]

I have seen them get stiff after hour plus runs. I run little pack style hounds that have decent control, some better than others. We had one caught from behind last year after a trip around some of the thickest wind rows I have ever walked through. When we got the rabbit he felt like he had been dead for hours. The running was steady with few break downs.

[pete young]

Stumbo,
I know the question has already been answered, but I will confirm what Johny said. The brace trial would be cool to watch with that kind of speed on the ground. Occasionally they will take an SPO trial all the way down to 2 dogs when the judges can't decide on which is better. It's always fun to watch.

[Slaux]

No hound can be "too" fast. With that in mind speed is all relative to the conditions of the day that your hound is running under. In a trial format a "good" judge should be objective and the winner should be the hound keeping the rabbit going, no matter what speed that may be or what format it is under. Depending on the day the "winner" might be the slowest dog in the pack or the fastest. Also keep in mind that a slightly faulty hound that is accomplishing the most should be given more credit than the extremely clean hound that isn't accomplishing as much.

Ask any serious gundoggers that you know which is their best dog. They won't say the fastest or the slowest one, just the "best" one. I have always disagreed that it takes a different type hound for different types of formats. There is only one type of dog in my opinion, "a rabbit dog".

[THALL]

where i live we mostly hunt ditches. they are full of holes. armidillo holes, muskrat holes, ditch dumps, etc.. If a race stops and the dogs are digging in a hole or up under a junk pile i assume the rabbit is there. if the rabbit takes to a bean field or cotton field with fast dogs after him he won't stay there long. I've seen deer caught by fox hounds. They get stiff just like a rabbit. to run a rabbit stiff you better be packing speed!

[Chuck Terry]

Slaux: (Regarding trials) you may be right in theory but not in practice from what I have seen. I am aware of beagles championing in two formats of the same registry (such as ARHA Little Pack and Progressive Pack OR Gundog pack and Progressive Pack). I might buy that one SPECIAL hound could Champion in three different formats in the same registry. Still, I would be very interested in seeing a hound that could Champion in both the UBGF and Mid-Western Federations of AKC SPO. They use the same rulebook but talk about a difference in speed and style!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[J.B.M.]

I remember the fist Progressive Pack hunt that I went to. It was the Ky state hunt in the mid-nineties. The finals came down to two hounds, Upper Falls Queenie and DFJ White Hoss Main Man. They jumped a rabbit quickly after being unleashed and put on a clinic. They ran almost check free for over forty minutes in seresa on a reclaimed strip mine and the temp was in the eighties. These were medium speed dogs, but they were able to keep constant pressure on the rabbit until it locked up and they caught it. It was stiff as aboard. I have also seen fast hounds just plain run a rabbit down and catch it. Both fast or medium speed dogs are capable of catching rabbits although I have to admit I've only seen a few rabbits actually picked up by hounds, fast, medium or otherwise and I've spent a lot of time in the field running dogs.

[Slaux]

Hi Chuck, I was talking in theory only, as I know that it's not the case, but there should be no difference. A good hound is a good hound in my book, slow, medium, or fast, although the faster game is pursued correctly the better!