kidney failure

tfk · Post by **tfk** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:05 am

Why do so many beagles end up with kidney failure? Have had a couple of buddies who have lost some good hounds from kidney failure. Is it something we are doing? Could it be the wormers? Most hounds i hear about who are having this problem arn't that old! Just curious.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:40 am

Over doseing certain wormers may cause the probelm. But I know lack of water will cause kidney failure. Here in the early fall it is very dry and you must carry water. The best hounds will not fall out of a hot race to get a drink and it is always them that have probelms. I just had to put down a Lumberjack bitch and she never would come for water. I have lost a lot of good ones and Vet always says ," I 'm sorry there is nothing that can be done that will really help." Perhaps Dr. S . can tell his take on this.

DarkCornerKennel · Post by **DarkCornerKennel** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:09 pm

Kidney failure is one of the symptoms of aflatoxin poisoning. Many dog owners experienced this during the Diamond dog food problem. Some kennels had many dogs and the aflatoxin only killed some of their dogs although all the kennelmates had ate food from the same bag. The vet told me poison is somewhat like liquor, being that it affects some folks more than others. Aflatoxin comes from corn. I wouldn't be surprised if other dog food manufacturers use bad corn from time to time.[/list]

J.B.M. · Post by **J.B.M.** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:55 pm

Do any of you guys think it can be from continually feeding high protein feed? I have a buddy who firmly believes it does, so I talked to a vet about it. He said that extra protein can overwork the kidneys and that the lower quality hi-pro feeds are harder on them than higher quality feed. He also said that hi-pro feed is ok if you are really working your dogs hard, but unless they are running 8+ hrs a day nearly everyday, they just don't need the hi-pro levels. He is a bird hunter and said he feeds only maintenance feed year round.....I had a hound suffering from kidney disease a couple yrs ago and the first thing the vet (different vet than told me about the feed) did was put him on a prescription, low protein, diet. I have been feeding maintenance feed through the warmer months and feeding the hi-pro in colder weather to dogs I am running quite a bit. I'd be interested to see what you guys think about this.

J.C. Blair · Post by **J.C. Blair** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:00 pm

JB,
I feed Pro Plan 26/18 from around September to April/May. Then I switch then to Dog Chow which is lower protein in the other hotter months. Ive done this probably for the last few years.

Shady Grove Beagles · Post by **Shady Grove Beagles** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:21 pm

Read my comments about the Ice dog that were posted

WrongsideRandy · Post by **WrongsideRandy** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:42 pm

I would like to have good stats on how many of the young dogs that have died from kidney failure were wormed with pig wormers/horse wormers instead of dog wormers?

How many of you guys have lost dogs to kidney failure while on Ivomec? How many have lost them to kidney failure while on dog heartwormer? Would be nice to know if this is hurting some dogs or not.

Take care,
Randy

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:46 pm

randy - if you can, find an article doc s wrote 3 or 4 years ago. it was published in THE AMERICAN BEAGLER and was about the affects of ivomec use and misuse. in a nutshell... its a pretty safe wormer for beagles even with repeated high doses there is pretty much no danger of liver problems.

HatterasBob · Post by **HatterasBob** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:00 am

My country vwt told me that feeding hi-pro feed year round will cause kidney failure. I was trumpted on another board a few years back by someone claiming to be an expert, that a study out of Canada disproved this belief. I cut the protein back in the summer months just in case.

I had a 5 year old bitch die this year from kidney failure. The vet thought she had Lepto previously and that killed her kidneys. I then had a pup almost die from Lepto this fall. She was easily cured with Doxycycline (cheap) in a month. It seems that the strains of Lepto in the current vaccines (like Fort Dodge) are not the ones that are being found currently. There are generally 9 serovars of Lepto found in dogs, Fort Dodge's vaccine only protects against 2 and not he right 2. Additionally, Lepto vaccines account for more bad reactions to the vaccine and ALL other canine vaccines combined. Therefore many vets discontinued the vaccination for Lepto. The are some new vaccines (recombinate type) being produced that treat 4 serovars, but still not the one my dog had. My vet sent my case file to Pfizer and they are attempting to include the serovar that almost killed by pup into a new recombinate vaccine. The recombinate vaccine has almost no bad reactions. This also is true for the Lyme vaccine. Use only recombinate vaccines, like ProLyme or Recombitek.

I am not a vet, but I do have a degree in Zoology and wanted to be a vet, but didn't have the grades. I research this info on the net after my issues with Lepto, Lyme and kidney failure.

I strongly believe Lepto is killing our Beagles. Lepto is pass through the urine of infected animals, such as cows, pigs, horses and rats. I don't know about you, but I hunt near cow pastures and my dogs drink poluted water from these cow pastures. If we start screaming for effective Lepto vaccines the industry will respond.
Bob Keese

jim m · Post by **jim m** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:30 am

i believe it is combination of feed and running dogs long hours at a time i have had beagles for 30 years the ones that lay around or pets live forever the hunters fall short i lost three to this i believe it is self inflicted feed and over doing things on my part.

Bunny Runner · Post by **Bunny Runner** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:53 pm

Bob,

I tend to agree with you on many points. I was just having a discussion about lepto with a very GOOD vet today and her point was that we shouldn't stop vaccinating against lepto just because the type of vaccine may cause a vaccine reaction because that will just make our dogs more susseptable to becoming infected. She also said that lepto has begun to mutate (becoming different strains) and the vacccines we have been using is slowly becoming ineffective and needs to be updated (kinda like the flu vaccine for humans). She made an excellent point when she stated that any dog exposed to wildlife (any wildlife) should be vaccinated for lepto. Vets have been seeing a sharp rise in the lepto cases being brought in for treatment in the last couple of years. She attributed this to urban sprawl and the distruction of available wildlife habitat. It is no long unusual to see raccoons, foxes, and such in cities and towns and they are also know carriers of lepto, distemper, and rabies. At the clinic where she works, she sees very few hunting dogs due to the fact that most hunters who keep many dogs just don't bring their dogs in for regular visits or vaccines.
I don't believe (based on research) that high protein is "causing" kidney failure in dog for the most part. A healthy dog should not have a problem with a food high in protein, but a dog with kidney problems or immune deficencies may see increased kidney function on a lower protein food. There have been many recent studies done on this subject and most of the evidence is confirming this theory. As far a dietary relationships with renal disease/failure, I would be more prone to believe that feeding low quality, grain-heavy foods are causing alot of the problems we are seeing inflicting our hounds today. Some of these lower grade foods (should I say cheap foods) have very high mineral (ash) content with can really tax the kidneys as it causes stuvite uroliths and calcium oxalate crystals (which are basically kidney stones).

Here are a few links with more info

http://vetmedicine.about.com/gi/dynamic ... leid%3D454

http://vetmedicine.about.com/gi/dynamic ... osis_g.htm

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/protein.html

mike hatfield · Post by **mike hatfield** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:33 pm

I just took my dog to the vet this morning because he just didnt have the flash and dash he normally does. He ran Wed. nite and did good, but i noticed he did not run all nite....i have a running pen....Well, he has kidney failure!!! The vet said he didnt know how he was able to run with all the toxions in his body....I feed Eukanuba, worm with interceptor and for the last three months he has only run in my pen....I remember reading something about Cornell University getting a lot of dogs with kidney failure, there is something going on and someone knows something!! The dog is 3 yrs. old...I know it is a sickening feeling when your best dog is basically dying....

rimshot · Post by **rimshot** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:11 pm

I would like to know what I'm doing to cause my dogs to die from kidney failure. In the past 10 years, most all the the dogs that I have lost, has been from the kidney failure. The last 2 were around 5 years old.

I did run them hard and I may have let some of them go a couple of years witout a booster shot, but at only 5 years old is hard to lose.

I feed my dogs once a day and when I would see food still in their pan from the day before, I knew it wouldn't be long before I would be digging a hole.

I still run them hard, but they get 8-1 shots each year now. I do have a cow pasture behind my dogs with a creek running between them. I'm sure at sometime, they got water from it.

I have read alot about lepto and I feel this has something to do with most of my dogs death. Good hunting..

tfk · Post by **tfk** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:24 am

....I remember reading something about Cornell University getting a lot of dogs with kidney failure, there is something going on and someone knows something!! The dog is 3 yrs. old...I know it is a sickening feeling when your best dog is basically dying....

I would be interested in reading this report.Where would i find it? Problem alot worse than I thought! My buddies vet told him it was the high protien foods. I called mine and asked, she said no. I agree, something is going on! Need to find out what. Lepto? Feed? Combination? Always fed purina high pro. Now just feeding it in winter, just in case! Oh by the way, the !st ingredient listed on hi pro bag is now corn. When did that change, had to be recently. Thanks for all the input guys! Still curious.

Honey Pot Hounds · Post by **Honey Pot Hounds** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:15 am

I was at a gas station filling up about a year ago and this guy comes up looking at the beagle stickers on my truck and says "so are you the beagle lady?" I am thinking "who is this weirdo!!! Men!" Well, turns out he was okay, just another Beagler and he was just tanking his Jeep up after a morning of hunting with his 13 yr.old bitch who he had with him. She didn't look a day over 7!

Here she was 13 yrs old and still running bunnies! The fellow said that her mother had been an even better hunting dog but she had died of KIDNEY FAILURE which the vet attributed to too many HOTDOGS. I don't know about ya'all but us show people can go through some hotdogs training our beagles....I have been buying the best hotdogs (low sodium and all that) ever since....

Just some food for thought...and no, I didn't see any bunnies in the back of his jeep