A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
blackdirt beagles wrote:i dont think anyone will argue that papers dont mean a lot ability-wise but some guys sure do get all huffy if their dogs arent akc. they start saying how often paper switching happens (im sure it happens at times) and how a 10 generation pedigree dont mean nothing to them and how their grade dogs embarrass so and so's registered dogs, etc... thats all fine and dandy but dont put down people who do have akc dogs with traits/ancestors that they can track. to each his own... i dont bash grade dogs or the people who keep them... so maybe those guys should worry a little bit less about akc registered dogs and those who have them. keep what you like and quit worrying about what your neighbor has! and i have owned many grade dogs and still own one right now along with my akc dogs.
I'm with Brian on this one. I own a grade dog that Brian sold to my kennel partner for a very low price. If this dog had papers, he would have easily sold for triple what we paid for him.
Unless you have a history of you own breeding, papers help to track the breeding of the dog, thius does not make the individual doge better at all. But it does help to give you the advantage to do research and attempt to breed for traits that you find desirable.
paz-- MIKEY was/is a heck of a dog. the only "non akc" dog i own right now is a pup out of him... so that should explain what i think of him .
as of right now, this pup is the only "grade dog" i plan on owning in the future. i know that these dogs are as good or better than most of the dogs out there. my reason for not wanting to keep grade dogs anymore was a hard one to make. but i took a lot of things into consideration; one such thing is the direction that the original breeder of this line was heading with his dogs and i am trying to remain as pure to this line as i can. i think that right now for the sake of the original line, i will keep it akc registered... and besides, im very happy with the line as it is now. maybe in the future i will re-evaluate this decision and change as needed... as i already said that i have nothing against non akc dogs... this is just my direction right now. but it just seems like the people with non akc dogs are the only ones who keep stirring the pot on this topic. the above was not meant for anyone inparticular... just some thoughts and ramblings on the subject.
My dogs have papers,and I know their blood lines very well , I always try to add traits to my pack and not bad ones , I look at a dog running solo and with others before I WILL ever put that dog in my blood line , and I want to know what their litter mates are doing . I dont have to think and wonder what my culls would have made because my friends love what I dont keep, and they dont go and have to buy trade day dogs, They have very solid hunting dogs that just dont have that extra zip that I am looking for, but are very proud of their pack without the papers and what they are doing. I do have one without papers and he is a WOLF / Husky mix 12 years old and would like to have another one if someone up north has one. Mickey Baker
I am the type of person that when I find something that I like I stick with it. I like Chevy trucks and that's what I drive. Does that make Chevy the best? I have no idea really and I don't plan to test drive all of the competition to find out. Am I missing out by limiting myself? I very well may be but that is beside the point. Chevy meets all the characteristics that I desire in a pickup truck and that is good enough for me. With dogs, I have found the traits that I like and I am sticking with them. A pedigree is no guarantee, but when breeding or buying a pup, it helps me to narrow my search without having to "test drive" as many dogs to get what I want. I am sure there are grade dogs that would meet my criteria, maybe better than I will ever know, but I don't plan to spend the time going through lots of dogs to find out. With trucks, there is a nice little brand tag and emblem to tell me what's a Chevy. With dogs, a pedigree is about as close as you can get.
I guess I would be in real trouble with everything that I'm reading on here. I have two females that are UKC and ARHA registered, one I have her complete bloodline and the other when I'm asked what she out of, I tell them she's out of Amish Country by Horse N Buggy. Do I evere get some dumb looks. My male is AKC, UKC, ARHA,PKC, DNA in AKC and UKC and everyone says if you have this they can't run a rabbit. Well I like what I've got and if they can't run a rabbit to the gun they won't be here very long. Hey I saw some really good input on this subject. Good hunting to all and hunt what you like. If you ever get to Ohio come set on the tailgate and listen to them run.
To old to cut the mustard, you can always run beagles
Look guys and gals, the FACT is 90% of all the beagles sold in America will never chase a rabbit or scratch their noses on a briar and I might Add Stand in a Show ring either!!!!! But that AKC paper work sure looks good on the wall!!! See all the Field Champs in his or her past!!!
Papers were important to me when I got a beagle last year. I have not had dogs since I was a teenager & those were grade. Some were not worth feeding. I simply wanted papers so I would have a better chance of getting a decent dog. I bought from a guy who ran the parents for me so I could see how they ran. This way I knew exactly what to expect. Everything I was told about the dog was 100% correct. I believe for the average guy with only 1 or 2 dogs it is a way to see what to expect. Many of you guys on here have quite a few dogs, & thats great. I dont have the option of going thru alot of dogs to see what works, as the kids & wife get attatched to them. Papers just might up the odds on getting a good dog for the average guy in my opinion. Mike
I agree, AKC are not the only registry, Arha UKC are fine as long as it gives a few generations back to see where the dogs came from & that they are pure breed. I have also heard rumors of people wrongly registering dogs, so try to deal with people who have good reputations that will show parents in the field if requested. Mike
The biggest difference in the AKC and other registries is thier commitment to doing all they can to ensure a breed is purebred. The more serious breeder wants to know the breeding behind his hounds in order to see which families will cross well together and produce better hunting dogs.
The only reason dog traders like AKC papers is because they help sell the dog; they aren't serious about improving the breed. I wouldn't trust everyone that sells a lot of dogs about the paperwork; sure most papers may be correct, but a guy that's just in it for the money and he happens on a nice grade dog, don't think he won't put a fancy set of papers on it to double his profit. Before buying a dog, I would contact the actual breeder that is on the AKC registration papers and let them verify that the dog is the actual one that he raised. The AKC has already banned several people with the help of DNA testing for putting false AKC papers on hounds.
As far as field trials, the AKC rulebook is genius, but the AKC has done a very poor job of enforcing the rules in it over the years. When you can allow purebred hunting beagle field trials to end up like the walkie talkie brace trials, that is a disgrace to the breed. The only AKC field trials in my opinion that are promoting a true hunting hound is the Mid-West Beagle Gundog Association or the clubs that run a similar style and interpret the rule book the way it was intended.
As far as the UKC and ARHA; I have never been to one of thier trials, but I'll bet they are more like the AKC MidWest and promote a better hunting beagle that most other AKC Associations. If UKC and ARHA want as much respect as AKC regarding hounds being purebred, they are going to have to refuse to register hounds that are not AKC registered and make an effort to ensure all beagles that they register are purebred.
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