opinion on best dog to ever run midwest gundog spo?

kjohns · Post by **kjohns** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:57 am

Big Dog,

Do I understand you right that you have seen Rob's Diamond II run? If so shoot me an email at kjohns182000@yahoo.com I have a linebred granddaughter out of him and would love some info.

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:54 pm

To Guest - I have no idea, again I will be the first to admit that I don't have a lot of knowledge on your traditional SPO type hounds. Most that I have seen were solid dogs, but lack the type of hunt that I am used to, in their defense they do have better control than the dogs that I run. I have noticed what a Little Pack or Midwest SPo person calls hard hunt is not the same as what a SPO person would call hard hunt. I have also noticed that you have to be careful when you talk speed. I have seen SPO dogs that were called medium fast by their owners, that any Little Pack, Large Packon hare or Midwest SPo person would call flat medium speed at best. You probably could get better answers from some of the folks on the SPO board who know a lot more about these type dogs.

To KJohns - I have not seen Rob's Diamond II run, but I have seen quite a few of his off spring run. One of the guys that runs where I run has 5 little females out of this breeding. They all have good hunt, good foot for a spo dog and excellent line control. If I liked a medium speed dog I would definitely feed everything that he has out of this line.

Big Dog

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:44 pm

Bigdog would you define The hunt IN LP and the hunt in SPO that you are talking about, and again thanks very much!

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:26 pm

I'll start by saying that this is just my opinion based off of what I have seen over the years. People that run, arha LP, Mid-west SPO, LP Hare typically look for a dog that comes off the leash or out of the dog box like a maddog and tears the briars up or searches on the run/move, some will hunt on the run and leave no stone unturned. Most of the ubgf style dogs that I have seen do not have that kind of hunt. They hunt, but not the maniac type hunt that I or most others in little pack would call hard hunt. I have a friend here that had run nothing but SPO style dogs most of his life, he had never really even seen the style of dog that I have, run. Well we got together one day and he was shocked by the way that my dogs hunted. Now all of my dogs hunt, but they aren't the hardest hunters that I have ever seen. Well I ended up selling him 2 dogs and he ended up getting one other that I used to own. He told me he had never seen dogs that hunted like that in his life.(none of these dogs were out of my breeding they were all purchased from others, so folks don't think I'm trying to toot my own horn as I believe hunt is in the breeding and I did not breed any of these dogs)(LOL) All of these dogs are busy and will get you a rabbit but they will not tear down the briars like some of the Northway dogs that I have seen, nevertheless I would call them above average in the search department. To talk a little about speed I sold him a male and a female that were both nice dogs, but did not have the foot that I wanted. I culled the male and female(littermates) solely for their lack of foot, they were good in every other aspect they just ran the back of my pack all the time, and the female wasn't even close. When my buddy saw the male run he said he was the fastest dog he had ever seen run in his life and that he could flat out fly. I about fell over and died laughing. It is all in what you are accustomed to and like. I see ubgf SPO guys all the time that refer to dogs as medium fast, but they definitely would not be considered medium fast by anyone in LP or Mid-west SPO. That is why you have to be careful when you talk speed and hunt. There are differences based on who you are talking to so you have to know your audience. People categorize speed based on what they have seen and if you have only seen one style of dog run your opinion will be based on that style of dog. There is room for all styles and I'm not picking on SPO just using the format as an example to get my point across. I like them all except traditional brace.(LOL)

Big Dog

KanesIrish · Post by **KanesIrish** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:40 pm

to those wanting to know what to cross Short's dogs into, Vic Costanza was very successful when breeding Short's PTO(Homebrew x Kate II, sister to Pro) to FC Greenbrier Maravic's Simba. Simba is out of the legendary reproducer IFC Maravic's Blue Ninja who produced over 40 FC's in just 40 litters and field trial legend IFC Greenbrier's Old Black Magic. This cross has worked out tremendously.

I will have pups from a field champion bitch out of this cross and FC Short's S Sam.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:43 am

Thanks to both you guys for your help! Bigdog when you going to write a book? Ill be on your buy list!! thanks again.

R.B. · Post by **R.B.** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:41 am

lance, i figured scott played into it.

Steve C. · Post by **Steve C.** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:25 am

Big Dog, have you ever run with Joe Wingate? Seems like you'd have a lot in common with his hounds. Joe's a good houndsman and has had some great hounds over the years. Steve Church is another from your area that runs "run to catch" hounds.

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:21 pm

I have communicated with steve church on several occassions and he is definitely a knowledgeable guy and a straight shooter, I haven't met Joe Wingate but will make it my mission to do so this fall. Those guys are in the eastern part of the state and I am in the Midwest portion that is the main reason our paths haven't crossed.

To Phil - No book plans in the future(LOL) I will still continue to write an article here and there for the american beagler as always. I love dogs and will go to just about any type of trial to see them run. The more you see the more you learn and I am never to old to learn.

Big Dog

Steve C. · Post by **Steve C.** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:53 pm

Big Dog, if you ever get the itch to run hare, bring those lazy ol' black & tans to Maine and we'll go for a good run!

R.B. · Post by **R.B.** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:43 pm

i don't hold grudges either. All i know is what scotty said and that's nuff said bout that. far as I am concerned we are friends.

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:28 pm

R.B, I'm as honest as they come, and if your being honest about what your saying, then by all means, were still friends. I wouldn't mind to bring Sam and Rock down to run with you sometime.....if you promise not to get us lost.......again

Lance

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:42 am

Bigdog what line of dogs do you run?

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:23 am

KanesIrish, What style and size was Maravics blueninja and what format did he run in? Thanks

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:38 pm

To PHil - Well I have a little bit of everything. I have a Northway/branko female, I also have a young male out of the Mt State breeding. The rest of my dogs are out of solid cottontail breeding that has been very successful in arha Little Pack which is where I run for the most part. All of my other dogs are linebred off of Hall of Fame Grand Rabbit Champion Swartz Big Time, His Littermate brother Hall of FAme Grand Rabbit Champion Swartz Briar Patch Biff and their younger full brother from the same cross 4 years later World Champion Hall of Fame GRand Rabbit Champion Waylon's Bomb. These 3 dogs are household names in arha Little Pack, Biff is still alive at 15 and Bomb is still alive at 11 years old. Big Time is also a Hall of Fame reproducer and has thrown more arha Champs than I can even start to count. Bomb has thrown quite a few champions and a World Hunt Winner. Biff has also thrown quite a few Rabbit Champions. These dogs are normally medium fast with good hunt, but super Jump Ability. Most are pretty good track dogs and have good foot. To my knowledge none have been competed in Midwest SPO but that may change in the next year. My dogs can be viewed on my website which is listed below my post, by clicking the www. All of my dogs are young with the oldest just turning 2 years old in april. Several are well on their way to championing out in arha LP and UKC. I plan to run the others some this coming spring in the Midwest association

Big Dog