first litter

PLATEAUBEAGLER · Post by **PLATEAUBEAGLER** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:39 pm

doc i've lost a litter of 6 out of 7 this was her first litter she was up to date on worming , shots,ect. this dog was keep in the best of shape during her pregnacy.i don't know where i went wrong was it something i did wrong or is this comman on first time litters?
thanks for any advice.

Plateaubeagler

Doc S · Post by **Doc S** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:45 am

Stillborn or die young? If so, at what ages did they die? Also how has the weather been down your way? I noticed you were in TN??? Not sure I would be really excited about the prospect of raising a litter in the heat you can have down there. Doc S

PLATEAUBEAGLER · Post by **PLATEAUBEAGLER** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:44 pm

all was still born except 2 and one was by c-section then died 2 days later after i feed then return back to the mother, when it got to eating and strength back.
as for the weather it's been really humid here but the mother was keep in cover kennel and placed into a above ground welping pen until time for her birth time.

thanks
plateaubeagler

PLATEAUBEAGLER · Post by **PLATEAUBEAGLER** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:31 pm

Well the last of the 7 past away today.

Plateaubeagler

Beagleman973 · Post by **Beagleman973** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:48 pm

How far did they go to term? Were they early or late? Did you have fans or anything on the pups? And was the one that just died nursing well? Another thing you have to watch with on first litters is the mother laying on and suffocating the pups. A small ledge around the inside of the whelping pen can help that.

I'm not Doc, but I feel for you and just want to help you prevent this in the future. I would try to narrow down the cause before I bred her again.

John

Doc S · Post by **Doc S** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:16 am

All good answers and good thoughts. I would kinda wonder about canine herpesvirus, the cause of fading puppy syndrome. The dam can be a carrier and it will only affect her first litter. The puppies will either be stillborn or die within a few days, but appear clinically normal. Best way to test for this is to have an autopsy performed on the dead pups. Weather and dam lying on the pups would also be very probable causes. I would definitley recommend a "pig rail" in your whelping boxes. Doc S

PLATEAUBEAGLER · Post by **PLATEAUBEAGLER** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:57 pm

Doc and beagleman all good advice, yes i would like to find some answer before i breed her again it was a serious blow to me and my partner.As for the sire he had never been breed before this was also his first breeding as same for the dam.IT was possible she may have layed on 1 of the pups but the other was nursing just fine from birth to about 4 days then started to taper off.As for the term my vet said he didn't think so but the pups was kinda large. But it could be possiable she was left with the sire over a week, and i no this was a mistake on my part and will never do that again, next time it will be for 1 day and thats it.
I know one thing and this has been a sad experiance for me and i will do all that if possible to keep it from happening again.

Thanks
PLATEAUBEAGLER

oakhill · Post by **oakhill** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 9:02 pm

SAme thing happened to me. First litter and dam was 4 years old. She was in good shape, wormed and shots up to date. Started out with 8. Two still born, then the rest just sort of died off. Sucking good then the next thing you know they were dead. Had autopsy done on 3 and everything was fine. No parvo, distemper, herpes, etc. Go figure. Know what you are going thru. It is rough loosing pups and not knowing why when they seemed so healthy. I thought she might have laid on one or two but the rest???

Hang in there. Sometimes things are just hard to figure out.

Sally

PLATEAUBEAGLER · Post by **PLATEAUBEAGLER** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 4:16 pm

Sally i guess it's the fact of just wanting know if there was something i done wrong but i think sometimes nature takes it's course.I really feel a great loss and it's gonna take sometime for me to get over it.
As i was once told it's just a small step for a climber.
One more thing Sally did you ever breed that dog again and was it successful?

Thanks
PLATEAUBEAGLER

Beagleman973 · Post by **Beagleman973** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:33 pm

I think Doc may be on to something....the one does sound like fading puppy syndrome, something to have checked. What about milk, did she produce quite a bit.

Plus, sometimes the mother's milk can be bad.

oakhill · Post by **oakhill** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:03 pm

I have searched and research and found out it could be any number of things that could have gone wrong, including the dam laying on them. Have heard of the dam having bad milk with bacteria in it causing the pups to get sick. But would have though that would have showed up in the autopsies. The dam was not running any fever. Also read somewhere on one of the boards about the dam and sire having an RH - factor which could contribute to the death of the pups. Said something to the effect that when the pups got the colostrum the antibodies would attack their immune system. If you knew this was the problem, then you could keep the pups off the dam until the colostrum was gone and then it would be okay for the pups to suck and the antibodies would be gone. What I want to know is , how are you gonna know if your hound is RH + or Rh -. And how are you gonna get rid of the colostrum if the pups don't suck.

To answer your question. I sold her CHEAP!!!! Someone came by and wanted a pup trainer and she fit the bill. Told them the story and left it up to them to whether they tried to breed her or not. I am still in touch with them and so far they have not bred her yet. Don't mind telling ya I was sorta mad at her because in the back of my mind I kept thinking she laid on the pups.

And you are right about just wanting to know so you won't do it again. And it made me sick seeing those dead pups

What was the purpose if I didn't learn anything from the experience.

Sally

oakhill · Post by **oakhill** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:04 pm

I have searched and research and found out it could be any number of things that could have gone wrong, including the dam laying on them. Have heard of the dam having bad milk with bacteria in it causing the pups to get sick. But would have though that would have showed up in the autopsies. The dam was not running any fever. Also read somewhere on one of the boards about the dam and sire having an RH - factor which could contribute to the death of the pups. Said something to the effect that when the pups got the colostrum the antibodies would attack their immune system. If you knew this was the problem, then you could keep the pups off the dam until the colostrum was gone and then it would be okay for the pups to suck and the antibodies would be gone. What I want to know is , how are you gonna know if your hound is RH + or Rh -. And how are you gonna get rid of the colostrum if the pups don't suck.

To answer your question. I sold her CHEAP!!!! Someone came by and wanted a pup trainer and she fit the bill. Told them the story and left it up to them to whether they tried to breed her or not. I am still in touch with them and so far they have not bred her yet. Don't mind telling ya I was sorta mad at her because in the back of my mind I kept thinking she laid on the pups.

And you are right about just wanting to know so you won't do it again. And it made me sick seeing those dead pups

What was the purpose if I didn't learn anything from the experience.

Sally