best food to put weight back on a dog?

[full circle kennel]

was wondering if anyone has had problems feeding hi-pro or dog chow. it seems as if our dogs in the kennel are getting a little on the thin side. i also have a new dog that i purchased, she is very thin. she was on hi-pro too. a friend of mine said to try bil-jac to put weight back on the new dog fast. i also wondered if there were any supplements that i could add to the dogs food to help.btw, these dogs are wormed on a regular schedule. thanks, pat

[ANTHONY KERR]

I had a 1.5 year old female that was wormed regularly test positive for whip worms. She had lost 4 pounds over a month period. I treated her with panacur three straight days and repeated 2 weeks later. The vet recomended puppy food twice a day. I bought large breed purina puppy chow and she put the weight back on in about two weeks.

[Bunny Runner]

Try adding cooked pasta! Dogs process carbs differently than humans and this can add weight in a hurry if your dog is not REALLY active. Carbs, in most cases, are stored as fat in dogs that aren't utilizing "quick energy"
You can also add things like Jack Mackeral, canned salmon, or some canned food to help put weight on AND contribute to great skin and coat.

If you want to stick to Purina (Hi-Pro), I would recommend the above, if you would prefer to switch, you could check out Nutro. They have performance formula that I have heard good things about. OR, if you want to go to something even better, try Eagle Pack, Innova, or Canidae. These are great foods, but there are MANY others as well.

Here's some sites that may help.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com
http://www.petdiets.com
http://www.eaglepack.com
http://www.naturapet.com

[full circle kennel]

thanks guys, i was thinking of worming her with something differant than the previous owners used. < drontal plus> thanks for the tip on the pasta its cheap and you can make a bunch of it at a time for next to nothing.

[full circle kennel]

bunny runner, was wondering if you could recommend a differant food than hi-pro for me. i have 3 coonhounds and 4 beagles at the moment and use about 40lbs a week. so something on the order of 20.00 or less a 50lb bag would be helpfull. thanks.

[Bunny Runner]

Sure, but lets talk about what you're feeding first, so we can make a proper comparison.

Purina Hi-Pro http://www.purina.com/products/dogs.aspx

Crude protein (Min) 27.0%
Linoleic Acid (Min) 1.2%
Crude fat (Min) 15.0%
Calcium (Ca) (Min) 1.0% Crude fiber (Max) 4.0%
Phosphorus (P) (Min) 0.8%
Moisture (Max) 12.0%
Vitamin A (Min) 10,000 IU/kg


Ingredients
Beef and bone meal, ground wheat, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, ground yellow corn, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of vitamin E), soybean meal, animal digest, salt, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, vitamin supplements (A, E, B-12, D-3), DL-Methionine, manganese sulfate, niacin, calcium carbonate, brewers dried yeast, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite. W-

While the protein and fat ratios look good on the surface, lets look at the ingredients. This is where the inconsistant results come from.
First of all, there are ALOT of grain sources being used to increase the protein of this food and the MAIN protein source (beef and bone meal) is not a truely reliable source of protein because there is no real ratio of meat to bone. Also, the "beef" that is used (in general) can be really poor quality (4-D meats). So one batch of the meal may be 70% meat (scraps usually) and 30% bone and the next batch may be 50% meat and 50% bone. It's just not a realiable protein source. It's also very high in minerals which can be taxing on the kidneys, which can cause renal issues (kidney failure, urinary stones, UTI's, etc).

All those grain sources can cause digestability issues because they are harder for a dog to digest when compared to meat sources. Wheat and Soy are considered in the top 5 list of allergen triggers and many dogs (while not truely allergic) have sensitivities to them. This can lead to diarrhea (or the dreaded pudding pooh), hair loss, itching, yeast infections, ear infections, or runny, buggery eyes. There are many other signs of food intolerance or allergies as well.

Animal digest is the intrails of ANY animal that the rendering plant is working with at the time. While "by-products" aren't all bad, I would rather see them list them individually as opposed to a generic listing and "digest" is not the most ideal by-product to begin with.

Beef tallow is the yellow to white, hard, lard type fat that is very hard for dogs to utilize. The soft pliable fats (within the muscle) is much better and more easily digested and utilized. Fats are very important to dogs for skin and coat, energy (they supply 9 kcals/gram), and also for making other fatty acids that are not necessary supplied in the diet. I would prefer to see chicken fat or even some of the better vegetable oils instead of "beef tallow".

OK, now lets see what we can find that compares (price wise) that will meet your dogs nutritional requirements AND improve their condition.


I have fed Sportmix and had pretty good results with it, but there are some draw backs, but is somewhat better. It's got 3 meat protein sources, 2 grains, AND has a great kcal/cup #
When I fed it, I got reliable results, but was looking to improve my dogs overall condition and health. The one thing I have noticed on ALL the "cheaper" foods is the dogs smelled like dogs (yeasty).

Sport Mix High Energy Adult http://www.sportmix.com/dog/premiumHigh ... tChunk.tpl

Kilocalories per cup: 544
Ingredients
Chicken By-Product Meal, Ground Yellow Corn, Meat Meal, Ground Wheat, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Dried Beet Pulp, Fish Meal, Flaxseed, Salt, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Copper Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Magnesium Oxide.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein, not less than 26.0%
Crude Fat, not less than 18.0%
Crude Fiber, not more than 4.5%
Moisture, not more than 10.0%
Omega-6 Fatty Acids, not less than 2.70%*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids, not less than 0.45%*


Here's a food that is another step up and pretty reasonalby priced. I have fed this as well and had good results. The ingredients are even better than the other two and if you will notice, there is CHICKEN MEAL. Not by-products or generic sources and only one main grain. I like the omega's ratio as well.

ProPac Adult http://www.propacpetfood.com/dogs/index ... 0102153631

INGREDIENTS:
Chicken Meal, Ground Yellow Corn, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Rice Flour, Dried Beet Pulp, Natural Flavoring, Flaxseed, Yeast Culture, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL- Methionine Hydroxyanalogue, L-Lysine, Vitamin E Supplement, D-activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D3), Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Zinc Proteinate, Manganous Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Copper Proteinate.


GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:

Crude Protein, not less than 26.00%

Crude Fat, not less than 15.00%
Crude Fiber, not more than 4.00%
Moisture, not more than 10.00%
Omega-6 Fatty Acids, not less than 2.70%*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids, not less than 0.45%*


Here's what I feed.

Eagle Pack Original (I also feed the Natural) http://www.eaglepack.com/Pages/SP_OrigAdult.html


While you may notice that this food has 3 grains, also note that there are two very GOOD protein sources listed before the fat AND a great protein source listed after the fat. Another thing to note is that the grains are WHOLE grains and not "fragments" of grains. This make a difference in the grains nutritional value and it's overall weight. If a maker adds alot of "pieces" of grains, then they may well add up to MORE than the meat source when all is said and done.
While I am far from rich, I do choose to feed a higher quality food which is more expensive, but that's my choice. My dogs do well on it and I have no complaints (other than price of course $30.00/50lbs wholesale). I also supplement my dogs diet with some "raw" meats and some cooked "stews" (made especially for the dogs), as well as canned salmon or jack mackeral. I also, rotate their kibble with Innova EVO (high protein/fat/no grains). I add these into their kibble or feed this exclusively a few days prior to hard running. They get these additional "enhancements" probably 3 times per week.

Ingredients:
Pork Meal, Ground Yellow Corn, Ground Brown Rice, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Dried Beet Pulp, Anchovy & Sardine Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Air-Dried Peas, Dried Carrots, DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, d-Pantothenic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Rosemary Extract, Inositol, Dehydrated Kelp, Polysaccharide Complexes (sequestered) of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, B. Subtillus, Bacillus lichenformis, Bacillus coagulins, Aspergillus oryzae and Aspergillus niger.
Ingredient Index


Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein min. 25.0%
Crude Fat min. 15.0%
Crude Fiber max. 4.0%
Moisture max. 10.0%

424 ME (Kcal/cup)
Calcium min. 1.2%
Phosphorus min. 1.0%
Vitamin A min. 22,000 IU/kg.
Vitamin E min. 125 IU/kg.
Omega 6 min. 2.5%*
Omega 3 min. .53%*

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles



While I am NOT impressed with the Hi-Pro, I would (and have) fed both of the others without problem, but I would still add to their diet.

I hope this hasnt' been to long-winded, lol.

ETA: I am feeding 10 dogs this way (not to mention the "house" dogs who get something different) and a 50lb bag last me approximately 2 weeks. The digestability is better and I feed less.

[ringtail]

go to your local butcher shop and get meat scraps, cook them and feed them with your food it will pick up weight,,,,,,

[full circle kennel]

thank you very much guys... i ll give it a shot.

[Chain Gang]

If you want to fatten them up go to Sams and get EXCEED in the pink bag. Lamb and Rice 26/16 I've tried most all these foods and have had better luck with the EXCEED. Hounds stay slick as glass and you dont have the numerous stinkin piles. 1 vegetable can a day per dog. It's about $21.00 for 44 lbs. but well worth it. Many say it's from Sams it cant be good. Try it, thats all I have to say.

[chris herpin]

Chain Gang you're absolutely right. Exceed is the way to go. Through a little research I found out Purina makes it for Sams. They wanted a dog food to compare with Eukanuba and Science Diet and went to Purina. Exceed is the result. I use the Yellow bag 30-20. Then I add a little used cooking oil to it. and the results are exactly as you described. I talked with a Purina rep about it and he told me that the fat in Exceed was sprayed on the food so it wasn't as good as regular Purina. I told him I don't care how the fat gets there as long as it gets on the food. And like you said only one cup a day is all they need. Chris Herpin

[Bunny Runner]

Chain Gang you're absolutely right. Exceed is the way to go. Through a little research I found out Purina makes it for Sams. They wanted a dog food to compare with Eukanuba and Science Diet and went to Purina. Exceed is the result. I use the Yellow bag 30-20. Then I add a little used cooking oil to it. and the results are exactly as you described. I talked with a Purina rep about it and he told me that the fat in Exceed was sprayed on the food so it wasn't as good as regular Purina. I told him I don't care how the fat gets there as long as it gets on the food. And like you said only one cup a day is all they need. Chris Herpin

Used cooking oil doesn't have the same benefits as not-used oil. The cooking process changes the fatty acids, so you would be better off buying a bottle of canola or corn oil to use for the dogs. Better yet, coconut oil has been show to be very benificial in recent studies.

Actually, most fats are "sprayed" on at the end of the extrusion process, so the Purina rep was not telling you the complete truth,
The reason why they are added at the end is for the fatty acid benefits, especially when they are using some of the more processed fats (ie: animal fat, poultry fat, etc). These fats alot of times are processed from already used sources, so more cooking would make them even less "usable"