Epilepsy again
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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imagine1701
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 9:08 pm
Epilepsy again
My 6 year old beagle has had epilepsy since he was approximately 2. His seizures were only happening 2 - 3 times a year. In January this year they started coming 2 times per month. I put him on Gingko Biloba which seemed to lessen the frequency and the seizures he does have are much milder. He weighs 29 lbs and I have been giving him one 60 mg tab for 25 lbs. I wonder if there is any other natural method of treating him to decrease the seizures even more. Any ideas. Thanks, imagine1701
hmm...
i have a house beagle that started having more and more... took her to the vet and he prescribed PHENOBARB 16.2MG. It cost me something like $8 for 2 months. she hasn't had one in the last 4 months... she was up to 2 a week...
i would consider doing something like this....
good luck,
Jack
ps, in time they will get worse and probably end up killing your hound... whats $4 a month?
i would consider doing something like this....
good luck,
Jack
ps, in time they will get worse and probably end up killing your hound... whats $4 a month?
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imagine1701
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 9:08 pm
Phenob
I know that Phenobarbital will eventual damage my little boy's liver. I wanted to stick with what is natural to avoid as much "collateral damage" as possible. I'm really pleased with the results I'm getting with Gingko Biloba. I haven't seen his seizures this mild before. I like to check every so often here to see if any new research on the natural medicine side has surfaced that will help my little fellow lead a life as close to normal as possible without damaging side affects. Thanks for you advise.
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SilverBullet
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:28 pm
I'm really pleased with the results I'm getting with Gingko Biloba. I haven't seen his seizures this mild before. I like to check every so often here to see if any new research on the natural medicine side has surfaced that will help my little fellow lead a life as close to normal as possible without damaging side affects. Thanks for you advise
I've been using Ginkgo for about 2 years to control my 5 year old Beagle's seizures ... I was probably the one who mentioned doing Ginkgo for epilepsy on these boards ... so far as I know, there is ZERO research on the subject of Ginkgo for epilepsy. I found it out by accident, after I started giving the herb to increase energy level. It did, and had the unexpected side effect of stopping the seizures. (I have also since learned that if given DURING a seizure, Ginkgo will stop it dead in its tracks). Personally, I'd like to do my own experiments with it on Beagles from lines known to sieze, but realistically will not be able to do that for a few years.
The only other advice I can give you if the Ginkgo is not completely halting the seizures (my Beagle only gets them when he is not given enough or if I have forgotten to medicate him) is to either slightly increase the dosage or try another brand. Certain brands really do work better than others. Its all a matter of tweaking things to indivigualize the regimen for your particular dog.
Another natural "weapon" you have on your side is diet. My epileptic does very well on Eukanuba Adult Maintenance ... certain foods decreased his energy level and seemed to lower the siezure threshold while the Euk seems to give him good energy. I also lowered his dosage of Ginkgo about two weeks after starting it. The same foods don't always work for every dog, but since I have such great results with it, I thought I'd bring it up.
Good luck
I've been using Ginkgo for about 2 years to control my 5 year old Beagle's seizures ... I was probably the one who mentioned doing Ginkgo for epilepsy on these boards ... so far as I know, there is ZERO research on the subject of Ginkgo for epilepsy. I found it out by accident, after I started giving the herb to increase energy level. It did, and had the unexpected side effect of stopping the seizures. (I have also since learned that if given DURING a seizure, Ginkgo will stop it dead in its tracks). Personally, I'd like to do my own experiments with it on Beagles from lines known to sieze, but realistically will not be able to do that for a few years.
The only other advice I can give you if the Ginkgo is not completely halting the seizures (my Beagle only gets them when he is not given enough or if I have forgotten to medicate him) is to either slightly increase the dosage or try another brand. Certain brands really do work better than others. Its all a matter of tweaking things to indivigualize the regimen for your particular dog.
Another natural "weapon" you have on your side is diet. My epileptic does very well on Eukanuba Adult Maintenance ... certain foods decreased his energy level and seemed to lower the siezure threshold while the Euk seems to give him good energy. I also lowered his dosage of Ginkgo about two weeks after starting it. The same foods don't always work for every dog, but since I have such great results with it, I thought I'd bring it up.
Good luck
I've heard people swear that switching foods (especially to a raw food diet) helps their dogs. I'm sure it doesn't work for every dog, but it might be worth a try.
For certain types of seizures (hypoglycemic ones), just a little honey on the tongue when you see the signs of an oncoming seizure can do the trick.
For certain types of seizures (hypoglycemic ones), just a little honey on the tongue when you see the signs of an oncoming seizure can do the trick.
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SilverBullet
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:28 pm
Boomer,
Switching foods can be all a hound needs to stop the seizures. Either that or supplementing with taurine. But the raw diet can be particularly harmful to an epileptic dog. My hound was on it for about 3 years and all it did was increase the frequenct & severity of seizures. He has not had many grand mals and has not gone into Status Epilepticus since switching off raw.
Another thing, raw can cause seizures if the diet is even slightly imbalanced in the calcium-phosporous ratio over time. Too much phosporous depletes the bones of calcium and since calcium deficiency is a cause for seizures, its makes the situation that much worse for an epileptic dog
The bacteria in raw is not usually harmful to a normall healthy dog, but epileptics are not normal, healthy dogs ... usually, their immune system is not as resistant which makes them succeptable to e-coli, salmonella, colostridium. I've heard a few cases of otherwise healthy dogs developing colostridium from raw, especially tripe.
My epileptic Beagle is at the point where 95% of raw meats will trigger a seizure. However, he does well with cooked foods added to his diet for variety.
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-ang ... w_Food.htm
Switching foods can be all a hound needs to stop the seizures. Either that or supplementing with taurine. But the raw diet can be particularly harmful to an epileptic dog. My hound was on it for about 3 years and all it did was increase the frequenct & severity of seizures. He has not had many grand mals and has not gone into Status Epilepticus since switching off raw.
Another thing, raw can cause seizures if the diet is even slightly imbalanced in the calcium-phosporous ratio over time. Too much phosporous depletes the bones of calcium and since calcium deficiency is a cause for seizures, its makes the situation that much worse for an epileptic dog
The bacteria in raw is not usually harmful to a normall healthy dog, but epileptics are not normal, healthy dogs ... usually, their immune system is not as resistant which makes them succeptable to e-coli, salmonella, colostridium. I've heard a few cases of otherwise healthy dogs developing colostridium from raw, especially tripe.
My epileptic Beagle is at the point where 95% of raw meats will trigger a seizure. However, he does well with cooked foods added to his diet for variety.
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-ang ... w_Food.htm
Just remember "natural" supplements are NOT regulated. No one knows proper dosage (no clinical trials are REQUIRED, too expensive for most companies)
Just keep in mind snake venom is all natural, but I wouldn't want to drink it.
Phenobarb shouldn't cause liver damage if you are on the correct dosage and you have a pheno level run every year or so. Phenobarb, and the subsequent testing, is also CHEAPER in the long run, herbal supplements are expensive, and again, natural isn't always natural. Products taken in concentrated form are never found at such concentrations in NATURE.
I drink sassafras tea, all natural, right? Now someone tells me I shouldn't, it can kill me... Who knew???... Anyway, off my soapbox now...
There has also been success for some beagles with epilepsy using potassium bromide, with and without phenobarbital.
Good luck, I had a beagle that died from seizures, he suddenly started having them, rushed him to the vet, but because he had had so many in a row he never regained conciousness, and died the next day.
Make sure it is epilepsy you are treating, there are other conditions that can bring on seizures. My dog did not have epilepsy.
Just keep in mind snake venom is all natural, but I wouldn't want to drink it.
Phenobarb shouldn't cause liver damage if you are on the correct dosage and you have a pheno level run every year or so. Phenobarb, and the subsequent testing, is also CHEAPER in the long run, herbal supplements are expensive, and again, natural isn't always natural. Products taken in concentrated form are never found at such concentrations in NATURE.
I drink sassafras tea, all natural, right? Now someone tells me I shouldn't, it can kill me... Who knew???... Anyway, off my soapbox now...
There has also been success for some beagles with epilepsy using potassium bromide, with and without phenobarbital.
Good luck, I had a beagle that died from seizures, he suddenly started having them, rushed him to the vet, but because he had had so many in a row he never regained conciousness, and died the next day.
Make sure it is epilepsy you are treating, there are other conditions that can bring on seizures. My dog did not have epilepsy.
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SilverBullet
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:28 pm
Just remember "natural" supplements are NOT regulated. No one knows proper dosage (no clinical trials are REQUIRED, too expensive for most companies)
Just keep in mind snake venom is all natural, but I wouldn't want to drink it.
Phenobarb shouldn't cause liver damage if you are on the correct dosage and you have a pheno level run every year or so. Phenobarb, and the subsequent testing, is also CHEAPER in the long run, herbal supplements are expensive, and again, natural isn't always natural. Products taken in concentrated form are never found at such concentrations in NATURE.
I drink sassafras tea, all natural, right? Now someone tells me I shouldn't, it can kill me... Who knew???... Anyway, off my soapbox now...
There has also been success for some beagles with epilepsy using potassium bromide, with and without phenobarbital.
Good luck, I had a beagle that died from seizures, he suddenly started having them, rushed him to the vet, but because he had had so many in a row he never regained conciousness, and died the next day.
Make sure it is epilepsy you are treating, there are other conditions that can bring on seizures. My dog did not have epilepsy.[/quote]
Just keep in mind snake venom is all natural, but I wouldn't want to drink it.
Phenobarb shouldn't cause liver damage if you are on the correct dosage and you have a pheno level run every year or so. Phenobarb, and the subsequent testing, is also CHEAPER in the long run, herbal supplements are expensive, and again, natural isn't always natural. Products taken in concentrated form are never found at such concentrations in NATURE.
I drink sassafras tea, all natural, right? Now someone tells me I shouldn't, it can kill me... Who knew???... Anyway, off my soapbox now...
There has also been success for some beagles with epilepsy using potassium bromide, with and without phenobarbital.
Good luck, I had a beagle that died from seizures, he suddenly started having them, rushed him to the vet, but because he had had so many in a row he never regained conciousness, and died the next day.
Make sure it is epilepsy you are treating, there are other conditions that can bring on seizures. My dog did not have epilepsy.[/quote]
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SilverBullet
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:28 pm
[quote="SilverBullet"]Just remember "natural" supplements are NOT regulated. No one knows proper dosage (no clinical trials are REQUIRED, too expensive for most companies)
Just keep in mind snake venom is all natural, but I wouldn't want to drink it.
Sorry about that last post, I clicked send too soon
I wanted to mention that Pheonbarb does not work well for all dogs, regardless of ehether or not it is regulated. Mine had poor reactions to it on a low dose, 1/4 of a grain.
You're absolutely right that natural does not automatically equal good and safe, but herbal supplements are generally tolerated better and are easier of the liver than traditional meds, especially something as strong and riddled with negative side effects as the barbituate Phenobarb. Potassium bromide is considered safer than using steroidal methods to calm seizures, however is not intended for use in every case of epilepsy. My Beag was having seizures that were too long lasting and severe for PB alone. They actually wanted to do a combo of meds if one alone didn;t work.
People flock to natural methods as they are generally well tolerated if used correctly, and without the side effects that can be cuased by drugs. If we only look, the Earth has supplied us with all the medicine we'll ever need.
Whereas my dog was zombie like and becoming extremely aggressive and out of control, and was beginning to loose use of his back legs and bladder on Phenobarb, I did my research, and found it interesting that Ginkgo is renownd for increasing blood flow to the brain. So perhaps traditional medicine should be looking elsewhere for the answers to the underlying causes of epilepsy ... clinical trials and doctors do not always have the answers ...
Phenobarb shouldn't cause liver damage if you are on the correct dosage and you have a pheno level run every year or so.
Absolutely incorrect. Any medication must be filtered through the liver, as parts of it are defined by the body as toxins. Such as alcoholics put a huge haul on their liver when the unnatural substance is ingested, as do all medications which are taken over long periods of time. Herbs can cause liver damage if taken long enough, but since most herbs are not inherintly toxic they generally are safer on the liver. They still can cause liver damage, but are less likely to. Dogs on barbituates long enough will almost always sustain some form of irreperable damage to the excretory organs.
BTW, licorice root is one herb that is renowned for its cleansing and healing of the liver.
Phenobarb, and the subsequent testing, is also CHEAPER in the long run, herbal supplements are expensive, and again, natural isn't always natural. Products taken in concentrated form are never found at such concentrations in NATURE.
I pay $8 for a bottle of Ginkgo, which lasts me 4-6 months. But price is not the issue. Having a healthy dog is. I do not believe medicating an animal or human is best. The drugs often supress the symptoms of disease, whereas herbs and natural feeding work to rectify the problem. For example, if inadequate blood flow to the brain was Deputy's cause for his "ideopathic" epilepsy, what would Phenobarb do to correct the cause? Nothing. Its a barbituate, a sedative, and that is how it ceases the seizure, which, essentially is brain activity gone haywire. It decreases ALL brain activity, so therefore, no more siezures. However, you have a veritably braindead dog, or human. Humans and dogs on Phenobarb tend to have that blank "stare". Clinical trials or no, my dog is healthy, active, and the damage done to his intellect by the seizures is slowly being reversed.
I drink sassafras tea, all natural, right? Now someone tells me I shouldn't, it can kill me... Who knew???...
Everything in moderation. Green tea can cause anemia if taken in excess, yet is a powerful cancer fighter. St Johns Wort is an astounding cure for depression and some mental health issues, yet in excess can cause a sensitivity to sunlight. Most clinical studies seem to contradict each other as they are using excesses to prove a point.
Just keep in mind snake venom is all natural, but I wouldn't want to drink it.
Sorry about that last post, I clicked send too soon
I wanted to mention that Pheonbarb does not work well for all dogs, regardless of ehether or not it is regulated. Mine had poor reactions to it on a low dose, 1/4 of a grain.
You're absolutely right that natural does not automatically equal good and safe, but herbal supplements are generally tolerated better and are easier of the liver than traditional meds, especially something as strong and riddled with negative side effects as the barbituate Phenobarb. Potassium bromide is considered safer than using steroidal methods to calm seizures, however is not intended for use in every case of epilepsy. My Beag was having seizures that were too long lasting and severe for PB alone. They actually wanted to do a combo of meds if one alone didn;t work.
People flock to natural methods as they are generally well tolerated if used correctly, and without the side effects that can be cuased by drugs. If we only look, the Earth has supplied us with all the medicine we'll ever need.
Whereas my dog was zombie like and becoming extremely aggressive and out of control, and was beginning to loose use of his back legs and bladder on Phenobarb, I did my research, and found it interesting that Ginkgo is renownd for increasing blood flow to the brain. So perhaps traditional medicine should be looking elsewhere for the answers to the underlying causes of epilepsy ... clinical trials and doctors do not always have the answers ...
Phenobarb shouldn't cause liver damage if you are on the correct dosage and you have a pheno level run every year or so.
Absolutely incorrect. Any medication must be filtered through the liver, as parts of it are defined by the body as toxins. Such as alcoholics put a huge haul on their liver when the unnatural substance is ingested, as do all medications which are taken over long periods of time. Herbs can cause liver damage if taken long enough, but since most herbs are not inherintly toxic they generally are safer on the liver. They still can cause liver damage, but are less likely to. Dogs on barbituates long enough will almost always sustain some form of irreperable damage to the excretory organs.
BTW, licorice root is one herb that is renowned for its cleansing and healing of the liver.
Phenobarb, and the subsequent testing, is also CHEAPER in the long run, herbal supplements are expensive, and again, natural isn't always natural. Products taken in concentrated form are never found at such concentrations in NATURE.
I pay $8 for a bottle of Ginkgo, which lasts me 4-6 months. But price is not the issue. Having a healthy dog is. I do not believe medicating an animal or human is best. The drugs often supress the symptoms of disease, whereas herbs and natural feeding work to rectify the problem. For example, if inadequate blood flow to the brain was Deputy's cause for his "ideopathic" epilepsy, what would Phenobarb do to correct the cause? Nothing. Its a barbituate, a sedative, and that is how it ceases the seizure, which, essentially is brain activity gone haywire. It decreases ALL brain activity, so therefore, no more siezures. However, you have a veritably braindead dog, or human. Humans and dogs on Phenobarb tend to have that blank "stare". Clinical trials or no, my dog is healthy, active, and the damage done to his intellect by the seizures is slowly being reversed.
I drink sassafras tea, all natural, right? Now someone tells me I shouldn't, it can kill me... Who knew???...
Everything in moderation. Green tea can cause anemia if taken in excess, yet is a powerful cancer fighter. St Johns Wort is an astounding cure for depression and some mental health issues, yet in excess can cause a sensitivity to sunlight. Most clinical studies seem to contradict each other as they are using excesses to prove a point.